Re: Software infrastructure

I beg to differ.

  Stanton McCandlish <anton@hydra.unm.edu> writes:

>As for "is kermit good enough?"  No.  Almost NO ONE in the DOS world uses
>it any more,
..flames elided...

I agree that the PC-centric BBS world has decided that Kermit is obsolete.

Kermit is continually improving and is very nearly as fast as ZMODEM.
It is available for nearly all platforms, is free, and source is availilbe.
It includes NASI support directly. It has a very nice (powerful) scripting
language. It also works over TCP/IP networks for folks with the luck
to be Ethernet'd into the Internet (like most of the faculty and staff here
at GMU). It also has very strong backward compatibility.

I expect that Kermit is good enuff if you are interested in commandline
scripts for plain old DOS. And the scripting language is also
supported by the C version that run on nearly all Unixs and most other
boxes. This would allow a single script to support a lot of users.
I'm not interestedin DOS and command lines, but if some other
cypherpunk wants to try, I'm sure not going to complain.

Pat

Pat Farrell      Grad Student                 pfarrell@cs.gmu.edu
Department of Computer Science    George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Public key availble via finger          #include <standard.disclaimer>

According to Pat Farrell:

> >As for "is kermit good enough?"  No.  Almost NO ONE in the DOS world uses
> >it any more,
> ..flames elided...
> 
> I agree that the PC-centric BBS world has decided that Kermit is obsolete.

Maybe it's just us... ;^)

> Kermit is continually improving and is very nearly as fast as ZMODEM.

Maybe I have a slow version, but I have NEVER gotten comparable results 'tween
kermit and zmodem, or even ymodem.  Usually it's a 2:1 difference.

> It is available for nearly all platforms, is free, and source is availilbe.
> It includes NASI support directly. It has a very nice (powerful) scripting
> language. It also works over TCP/IP networks for folks with the luck
> to be Ethernet'd into the Internet (like most of the faculty and staff here
> at GMU). It also has very strong backward compatibility.

This is worth considering...

> I expect that Kermit is good enuff if you are interested in commandline
> scripts for plain old DOS. And the scripting language is also
> supported by the C version that run on nearly all Unixs and most other
> boxes. This would allow a single script to support a lot of users.
> I'm not interestedin DOS and command lines, but if some other
> cypherpunk wants to try, I'm sure not going to complain.

What do you mean by "commandline script?"

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I am NOT interested in arguing the merits or lack thereof of Kermit. 
Kermit IS used, but rarely on PCs, and VERY rarely in what appears to be
the target market.  Remember that we're talking about a general-user,
friendly application for the compuklutz.  After being spoiled by QModem,
there is no way in hell, heaven or otherwise that many of them will use
Kermit or something based on it, unless it offers all that QM does (incl.
Zmodem, external protocols, cute menuing interface, etc.)  I think
there's a confusion here, namely that Kermit is useful on some sorts of
machines, and for specific purposes, but this idea is getting mixed up
with what is the most useful DOS comm program(s), the one(s) most used. 
THATs where the market is.  Its not a matter of "is kermit cool, is
kermit good enough, is kermit free?", its a matter of "will the target
users actually use it, or anything based on it?"  I'd suggest again that
the answer is "no".  That's all.  Not meaning to insult anyone who's fave
term prog. is kermit.  Just trying to suggest a clarified view of the PC
telecom program market.  People make new comm programs all the time, many
with a LOT of features.  But they ain't the Big Three, so they get
ignored.  Perhaps sadly. 

-- 
        When marriage is outlawed only outlaws will be inlaws!
Stanton McCandlish,  SysOp:  Noise in the Void DataCenter Library BBS
Internet anton@hydra.unm.edu     IndraNet: 369:1/1      FidoNet: 1:301/2     
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