Encrypting the list

On encrypting the list, mostly I vote NO.

The idea of "known non-spies" is, to say the least,
a shakey one.  Not the kind of concept you base security on.
Also not the kind of psychological attitude and atmosphere
that I want to be part of.  "Are you one of US?"

Stewart Brand says in the latest Whole Earth Review, that
as soon as you become one of the people
who knows the kinds of things
that THEY want to know,
then how do other people
know that YOU aren't one of THEM?

We're all prime suspects for being spies.
I'd feel the most secure if everybody kept the content (not
necessarily their true names) out in the open.

Of course there's the fact that we want to be as inviting and
easy-to-connect-to as possible to serious newcomers and potential 
friends.  I count true spies and near-spies among the potential 
friends.  I just don't want this to be, or seem like, a clique.

It would be nice, however, to set up crypto I/O connection
OPTIONS to the list, as an incentive for lazy people like me to
figure out how to get PGP and mail filters set up.

-fnerd
quote me

FutureNerd Steve Witham writes:
 > We're all prime suspects for being spies.

'specially those of us with both .gov and .com email addresses, right?

According to FutureNerd Steve Witham:
> On encrypting the list, mostly I vote NO.

Well, I suggested it, so I guess I'll unsuggest it.  This is a bad idea.  I was
tired when I perposed it.  Lets leave this alone now, ok?

...other stuff deleted.

> It would be nice, however, to set up crypto I/O connection
> OPTIONS to the list, as an incentive for lazy people like me to
> figure out how to get PGP and mail filters set up.

Yes!
+-----------------------+-----------------------------+---------+
| J. Michael Diehl ;-)  | I thought I was wrong once. | PGP KEY |
| mdiehl@triton.unm.edu |   But, I was mistaken.      |available|
| mike.diehl@fido.org   |                             | Ask Me! |
| (505) 299-2282        +-----------------------------+---------+
|                                                               |
+------"I'm just looking for the opportunity to be -------------+
|            Politically Incorrect!"   <Me>                     |
+-----If codes are outlawed, only criminals wil have codes.-----+
+----Is Big Brother in your phone?  If you don't know, ask me---+

Summary: Encrypting the cypherpunks list make no difference in the
security of information dispersal, but may make a large difference in
local security and as a spur to software development.

>> It would be nice, however, to set up crypto I/O connection
>> OPTIONS to the list, as an incentive for lazy people like me to
>> figure out how to get PGP and mail filters set up.

>Yes!

Michael, here is a word from your friendly neighborhood list
maintainer.  I don't have time to work on this, and neither to the
people who run toad.com.  So it's not going to happen on toad for a
while.

The good news is that it doesn't have to.  You yourself can write the
code!  The code for the existing cypherpunks remailer is all you need
to get started.  Here's how.  You subscribe to cypherpunks and then
forward the list mail, encrypted, to all the people who have
subscribed with you for an encrypted version of the cypherpunks mail.

With the cypherpunks remailer, you can do all this with your own
account.  It is a pretty good skeleton for the creation of email
servers out of user accounts.  You don't need your sysadmin's
cooperation to get it running, although you may need their blessing to
keep it running.

You can implement a listserv type operation if you want, with
automatic subscribe/unsubscribe and add all the options you want to
it.  You'll have to deal with the bounce messages, of course, but you
can rwrite software to deal with that.

Someone who wants to provide digest service can to a similar thing for
digestification.

There have been lots of people over the course of the list history who
have wanted encryption and digests.  I would suggest that those who
want them convince someone to run a secondary service to provide them
with these services.

Eric

According to Eric Hughes:
> Summary: Encrypting the cypherpunks list make no difference in the
> 
> >> It would be nice, however, to set up crypto I/O connection
> >> OPTIONS to the list, as an incentive for lazy people like me to
> >> figure out how to get PGP and mail filters set up.
> 
> Michael, here is a word from your friendly neighborhood list
> maintainer.  I don't have time to work on this, and neither to the
> people who run toad.com.  So it's not going to happen on toad for a
> while.
> 
> The good news is that it doesn't have to.  You yourself can write the
> code!  The code for the existing cypherpunks remailer is all you need
> to get started.  Here's how.  You subscribe to cypherpunks and then
> forward the list mail, encrypted, to all the people who have
> subscribed with you for an encrypted version of the cypherpunks mail.

Between a full-time job, my mail system, pgp menu, a software review, a
girlfriend, and wedding plans, I sure won't be able to write this code.  I'd
love to if I had the time....  Will someone else volunteer?

+-----------------------+-----------------------------+---------+
| J. Michael Diehl ;-)  | I thought I was wrong once. | PGP KEY |
| mdiehl@triton.unm.edu |   But, I was mistaken.      |available|
| mike.diehl@fido.org   |                             | Ask Me! |
| (505) 299-2282        +-----------------------------+---------+
|                                                               |
+------"I'm just looking for the opportunity to be -------------+
|            Politically Incorrect!"   <Me>                     |
+-----If codes are outlawed, only criminals wil have codes.-----+
+----Is Big Brother in your phone?  If you don't know, ask me---+

On Thu, 10 Jun 1993, J. Michael Diehl wrote:

> love to if I had the time....  Will someone else volunteer?

Well.. I am starting a project (as soon as my mail alias is set up by the
sysadmin) to do something like this...  Mostly I just want to play with
writing software that intercepts email... and try my hand at calling PGP
from other software...  which leads to a suggestion...  It would be nice
if PGP had a publicly available API, similar to that provided by RSAREF.

--
Nick MacDonald               | NMD on IRC
i6t4@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca  | PGP 2.1 Public key available via finger
i6t4@unb.ca                  | (506) 457-1931    ^{1024/746EBB 1993/02/23}

>> It would be nice, however, to set up crypto I/O connection
>> OPTIONS to the list, as an incentive for lazy people like me to
>> figure out how to get PGP and mail filters set up.
>

I also think it would be a good idea (and exercise) to have a cypto 
option to the list (where all my incoming email is PGP'ed ether with
my key or a cypherpunk key. 

Again I state that this is more of an exercise for us then anything else.

		-Pete