Complete ignorance of any sort of reality on May's part (was We are

Timothy C. May writes:
 > degrading to women, objectifies them, etc. (ironically, unless of course it
 > is "made by and for wimmin," a loophole added by Andrea Dworkin and her
 > supporters after they discovered their anti-porn crusade in Canada and
 > elsewhere would put an end to Lesbian porn mags like "Yellow Silk"!).

This is complete and utter nonsense.  Tim May has no clue as to what
he talks about. What's worse, it smells of homophobia.

In no particular order:

- Dworkin has never called for the banning of porn.  I've read most of
her books, and she even goes out of her way to say she's not calling
for any sort of censorship.  She *does* push for 'victim
compenstation'-style legislation.  (How this sort of legislation
interacts with constitutional rights is beyond my keen, save a few
decisions I've read about 19th century property rights in Louisiana. :-)

- I've heard Dworkin come down just has hard on lesbigay porn, if not
harder than, as she does on het porn.  Her old housemate John
Stoltenberg (sp?) is as noxious as she is on this point.

- "Yellow Silk" is not a lesbian porn mag.  It's a very lame het
softcore mag. If you'd like to see *real* lesbian porn (some of which
pisses off a fair portition of the feminist and lesbian communities)
find "On Our Backs" (started by Susie Bright), "Venus Infers" (started
by Pat Califia, women-only SM), or "Girljock" (sort of a
preppie/athelete/lesbian (not dyke :-) porn mag).

- Last I heard, there was no need to capitalize 'lesbian'. None of the
dykes/lesbians I know capitalize it, unless it starts a sentence.
Residents of Lesbos (the true 'Lesbians') might disagree, however.

Tired of white het male computer geeks talking nonsense about anyone
who threatens their place in the power structure,

--
jet@netcom.com -- J. Eric Townsend -- '92 R100R: "CLACKER"
"Either what you've said is so vague that it's meaningless or I disagreee
 with you completely." -- Tom Maddox

J. Eric Townsend says:
> - Dworkin has never called for the banning of porn.  I've read most of
> her books, and she even goes out of her way to say she's not calling
> for any sort of censorship.  She *does* push for 'victim
> compenstation'-style legislation. 

This is silly. Its like saying "I'm not in favor of banning guns --
but I want victims to be able to sue the gun manufacturers for
negligence". Dworkin is a fascist in feminist clothing -- for all
intents and purposes she believes that any act of heterosexual sex is
on some level rape. She's nuts.

> Tired of white het male computer geeks talking nonsense about anyone
> who threatens their place in the power structure,

This white male het computer geek marches in the Gay Pride Parade
every year. (Well, not this year -- I was sick. Mea culpa.) He also
thinks that Andrea Dworkin is about as anti-censorship as Rev.
Wildmon. I don't give a shit about the power structure -- I just think
that anyone telling me what I can and cannot see, what I can and
cannot write, and what I can and cannot sell, is my enemy.

Perry

I'm sorry I got sidetracked with the bit about dworkin.  I'm not
really even a serious supporter of hers.  On the other hand, I'm
probably one of the few people 'here' who've read most of her work.
Before one goes about believing many of the outrageous things
attributed to her, one should read her writing and take many of the
statements in context.  (Who was it a couple of years ago posting
summaries of out of context quotes by usenetters in alt.flame?)

At any rate, I was dismayed by Tim May's lack of knowledge regarding
the people he was attacking.  Wildly thrashing about and attacking
anyone who isn't completely on one's side tends to get one nowhere.

Again, I apologize for sidetracking things. 

-eric

Yeah, I heard that she had to do some gymnastics to explain how gay male
porn degrades women, too. ;-)

Is this true, or am I also a homophobe? ;-)

I hate Dworkins arguments. There are plenty of pro porn
lesbians/feminists. At least, I've read stuff by several, (bright/Annie
sprinkle, etc) and I've read some stuff by various porn stars that call
themselves feminists... Identifying feminism with censorship annoys me...I
wish I had some data on how many women who call themselves feminists are
pro censorship... if its the majority, I guess I'd have to allow it... ;-)

The problem for intellectuals is how to protect 'erotica' and somehow
squash 'pornography.' The difference is amusing to me. One mans erotica is
another womans porn...

All right thinking people would agree that the only thing that could be
wrong in the sex trade is coercion, be it of women or children or horses
or hamsters... I have some problem with the idea of the coerciveness of
the 'free market' though, as does Dworkin, so I guess we do have some
things in common... I'd like to know that no one is in the trade to pay
for a drug habit...of course, I think that drugs, like food and shelter
and air, should be free...

But I'm a nut. ;-)

Jay