Apple planning to use Clipper chip?

A disturbing rumor/tidbit from the party I just finished discussing:

Someone from Apple Computer said that Apple has been making "input" on
the Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone/whatever thing and _endorsed_ the idea
(or at least someone representing Apple did). Apple even discussed the
pricing and said that if the Clipper/Skipjack chip could be sold to
them for less than $30, they could "design it into every Mac."

Phil Zimmermann was listening when this was said, and he was as
shocked as I was.

Can anyone on this list confirm or refute this report? (I don't want
to name the Apple guy--several were at the party--unless he wants me
to. But since he's not on the Cypherpunks list...)

The fact that Apple is reviewing the "key escrow" proposals probably
implies other hardware makers are as well. This suggests a whole
behind-the-scenes movement to get Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone key escrow
chips designed into PCs, probably in the communications/modem/network
subsections.

Speculatively, this could be a worse "fait accompli" than the Clipper
proposal for phones, since not many people are planning to buy new
secure phones, but a huge number of new Macs and PCs will be bought.

(I assume folks can "wire around" the Skipjack/Capstone subroutines in some
way, probably more easily than mods to the Clipper phones can be made.
After all, it's software. So I don't claim the Feds will automatically
be successful.)

Many of us believe the "other shoe will drop" when a new Crime Bill
(like the Biden Bill of a while back) is proposed, and key escrow is
made mandatory for data systems.


--Tim May

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

> 
> The fact that Apple is reviewing the "key escrow" proposals probably
> implies other hardware makers are as well. This suggests a whole
> behind-the-scenes movement to get Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone key escrow
> chips designed into PCs, probably in the communications/modem/network
> subsections.
> 

It's quite fortunate, then, that the PC market is not monopolized as the
Macintosh market is.

    Stig


;; __________________________________________________________________________
;; Stig@netcom.com                            netcom.com:/pub/stig/00-PGP-KEY
;; It's hard to be cutting-edge at your own pace...   32 DF B9 19 AE 28 D1 7A
;; Bullet-proof code cannot stand up to teflon bugs.  A3 9D 0B 1A 33 13 4D 7F

On Sun, 29 Aug 1993 19:06:54 PDT, stig@netcom.com (Stig) said:

>> 
>> The fact that Apple is reviewing the "key escrow" proposals probably
>> implies other hardware makers are as well. This suggests a whole
>> behind-the-scenes movement to get Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone key escrow
>> chips designed into PCs, probably in the communications/modem/network
>> subsections.
>> 

>It's quite fortunate, then, that the PC market is not monopolized as the
>Macintosh market is.

>    Stig

Darn, and just as I was thinking about a powerbook 180.
If Apple buys into key escrow, I'm not buying into Apple.

Mike

From the keyboard of Mike Rose:

> Darn, and just as I was thinking about a powerbook 180.
> If Apple buys into key escrow, I'm not buying into Apple.

There are many other reasons not to buy or use Apple equipment.  I have
never purchased an Apple computer due to a profound distaste for their
policies.  The Free Software Foundation is boycotting Apple due to some
litigation concerning user interface design.

Companies like Apple don't like the idea of free software.  Consequently,
many people don't like Apple.

Stratocaster
-- 
                                               Steve Davis (strat@cis.ksu.edu)
                                                       Kansas State University
It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than
to put out on the troubled seas of thought.  -- John Kenneth Galbraith

On Mon, 30 Aug 1993 09:54:15 -0500 (CDT), strat@sam.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) said:

>>From the keyboard of Mike Rose:

>> Darn, and just as I was thinking about a powerbook 180.
>> If Apple buys into key escrow, I'm not buying into Apple.

>Consequently,
>many people don't like Apple.

>Stratocaster

I'm aware of this, but don't see its relevance to cypherpunks.

Mike

From the keyboard of Mike Rose:

> >> Darn, and just as I was thinking about a powerbook 180.
> >> If Apple buys into key escrow, I'm not buying into Apple.

> >Consequently,
> >many people don't like Apple.

> I'm aware of this, but don't see its relevance to cypherpunks.

Most discussion here is a technical examination of privacy and freedom with
specific regards to the use of technology as either a tool or a weapon.
When something as broad and necessary as "freedom" is at stake, it is
important to know who your friends are.  

Stratocaster
-- 
                                               Steve Davis (strat@cis.ksu.edu)
                                                       Kansas State University

Anarchy means having to put up with things that really piss you off.