Re: Private and Public

Hmmm... my post may well ignite some flames; but I can't go along with
the notion that this list is for purely tech discussion. Encryption is a
social and political issue as well as a technical one, isn't it?  I would
think that it's more dangerous to ignore the social and political
ramifications than to have them out publically.
    It seems to me that encryption poses LOTS of dilemmas for any 
government. I chose just one -- taxes -- for my post. And looks like 
there are quite a few viewpoints on that one, with regards to the 
government's right to examine your income sources. The fact the encryption 
schemes are classified as military  (or military-type) material and so 
are subject to comparable controls by  the State Department should alert 
us to this fact. So to insist that we  stick to Greatest Primes and 
Modulo seems... unrealistic.
    Of course, if the discussion seems pointless or irrelevant to you... 
there's always the delete key.
    My :9&53xS+ (= digital $.02) worth.


On Mon, 8 Nov 1993, Nick Papadakis wrote:

> 
> >   What do you think?
> 
> 	I think you are inviting a political flame war on what is
> supposed to be a technical list.  Please take it to alt.privacy.
> 
> 	- nick
>

Arthur Chandler says:
>      Hmmm... my post may well ignite some flames; but I can't go along with
> the notion that this list is for purely tech discussion.

I'm sorry that "you can't go along" with that, but I'm afraid that you
don't have much choice: it isn't your list. Many of us have gotten
burned out from a number of very long arguments on this list, and
politics was not part of the charter to begin with. If you insist on
discussing it, might I suggest that there are many places where the
discussion would be appropriate, like talk.politics.crypto,
alt.privacy, talk.politics.misc, or many other places?

.pm

> Encryption is a
> social and political issue as well as a technical one, isn't it?

	It is, and I think that aspect merits discussion.  I'd simply
like to see it occur in some other venue, where I can avoid it more
easily.

	I just nearly signed off cypherpunks (and many good people
did) because the list was clogged with pointless flaming.  I don't
want to see it happen again, and trying a bit of restriction based on
technical content is one way to do that.

	Look at it this way: there are n places (alt.privacy,
alt.security, extropians, sci.crypt) where you political types can
flame merrily away.  Where can I go for a rest from the flames?  Let
cypherpunks be that place.  I'd like to see only high-quality
technical posts, and occasional well-thought out commentary and
pointers to the political developments elsewhere.

	I'm tired of the terrible tyranny of the voluble, where the
debate becomes controlled by those with nothing better to do than type
first and think later (if ever).  Not that I mean to imply that's what
your doing -- I'm just gun-shy.


	Cheers,


		- nick


P.s.	Some people get very upset if you quote private email
publically without permission.  I'm not one of those people, but I
thought I'd let you know before you actually meet one.

> 
>      Hmmm... my post may well ignite some flames; but I can't go along with
> the notion that this list is for purely tech discussion. Encryption is a
> social and political issue as well as a technical one, isn't it?  I would
> think that it's more dangerous to ignore the social and political
> ramifications than to have them out publically.

Encryption is a social a political issue.  This list however is a
collection of people interested in the technical aspects of using
encryption to increase privacy (crypto-privacy).  Some of the people
on this list may be interested in discussing the social and political issues,
some of the people on this list may not be interested in discussing the
political and social issues.  The *one* thing that all subscribers
to this list have in common is an interest in the technical aspects
of crypto-privacy.  Lets keep on topic.  Like someone has said to
the list before we are a collection of people with different goals
and views, lets work together as long as we have to and no longer.