Re: It had to happen...

The cracker who's using Secure Drive could be an interesting case.
Unfortunately, assuming that a cracker at a university is probably
a student, he may not hve very good legal representation,
and I'd hate to see bad precedent on "can you be forced to reveal your key"
set because someone is not only a tresspasser but a stupid one as well.
Do you know if the wiretapping was being done by police, or if it was
just the university staff with ethernet sniffers?  I was interested
by your comment that they can't prosecute the person without the data;
while it could certainly be helpful to have, one would hope they had
a reasonably solid case *before* they went and arrested him.....

			Thanks;  Bill
# Bill Stewart  NCR Corp, 6870 Koll Center Parkway, Pleasanton CA, 94566
# Voice/Beeper 510-224-7043, Phone 510-484-6204
# email bill.stewart@pleasantonca.ncr.com billstewart@attmail.com

>
> The cracker who's using Secure Drive could be an interesting case.
> Unfortunately, assuming that a cracker at a university is probably
> a student, he may not hve very good legal representation,
> and I'd hate to see bad precedent on "can you be forced to reveal your key"
> set because someone is not only a tresspasser but a stupid one as well.
> Do you know if the wiretapping was being done by police, or if it was
> just the university staff with ethernet sniffers?  I was interested
> by your comment that they can't prosecute the person without the data;
> while it could certainly be helpful to have, one would hope they had
> a reasonably solid case *before* they went and arrested him.....
>
> 			Thanks;  Bill
> # Bill Stewart  NCR Corp, 6870 Koll Center Parkway, Pleasanton CA, 94566
> # Voice/Beeper 510-224-7043, Phone 510-484-6204
> # email bill.stewart@pleasantonca.ncr.com billstewart@attmail.com
>

Assuming the arrest warrant was good not revealing the key to a duly
authorized court representative would be illegal (ie interfereing with a
police investigation). If the courts serve a warrant for your arrest and the
confiscation of data on your hard drive (and you refuse to turn the data over
even after talking w/ an attorney) is specificaly mentioned you are opening
yourself up for another whole world of legal hurt.

A citizen would have the legal right to refuse prior to talking w/ an
attorney but not after, at that point it becomes witholding evidence.


If the process is legal there should be no reason a citizen can refuse to
turn over his private keys (I don't believe self-incrimination holds here).

...
> 
> Assuming the arrest warrant was good not revealing the key to a duly
> authorized court representative would be illegal (ie interfereing with a
> police investigation). If the courts serve a warrant for your arrest and the
> confiscation of data on your hard drive (and you refuse to turn the data over
> even after talking w/ an attorney) is specificaly mentioned you are opening
> yourself up for another whole world of legal hurt.
> 
> A citizen would have the legal right to refuse prior to talking w/ an
> attorney but not after, at that point it becomes witholding evidence.
> 
> 
> If the process is legal there should be no reason a citizen can refuse to
> turn over his private keys (I don't believe self-incrimination holds here).

Not being an expert....

I don't believe you can be forced to say anything if you believe it
will incriminate you.  Only if you are given immunity can you be
compelled, and only then under threat of contempt of court, which is a
misdemeanor.  The police/courts have all kinds of ways to encourage
you, but the Fifth still holds.

They 'have' the evidence, so you are not withholding.  The key is your
knowledge, which is protected as much as if they were trying to force
you to tell them where the body was in a murder investigation.  It's
up to them to find it.

If they were dumb enough to rely on what data was present instead of
observed traffic, they're in bad shape, IMHO.

sdw
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