Re: eavesdropping detection

Re phone taps: forget it.  Anything above amateur level tapping is done via
the central office, where it is simply impossible to detect.  Any device
which claims to detect wiretaps is fraudulent.  I'm speaking from over ten
years' experience in telecom, extensive relevant background, etc.  

Room surveillance: you have to be *really* up to something to be targeted 
for this.  Unlikely at best; but he earlier post about spec analysers is 
useful & relevant here.  

Generally: bear in mind that surveillance is incredibly labor intensive at
any level beyond the "vaccuum-cleaner approach" using keyword scans on 
trunks.  Too labor intensive to be conducted unless there is serious 
justification for the cost of the person-hours involved.  

-gg

Hi George,

Merry Christmas to you, yours, and the CypherPunks!

Glad to meet another 'proffesional' security person. I worked for a major
university doing all kinds of physical security and access abuse for 5 years.
Was a lot of fun and got to play with all kinds of nifty stuff...:)

My favorite is the toilet roll camera made for Airports....

I would agree w/ you as far as the telephone switch tap is concerned. The
only way to find that is to get into the switch (or possibly the local police
computer through a rf link). When I had posted my original reply I had not
taken that into consideration. Since most police departments don't encrypt
(or at least not strongly) their database searches from their in-car
computers I can see a possible hole here. I really don't expect it to stay
open very long however (a year or two at best).

I know such data can be accepted by a normal pc w/ a scanner and modem. It
should not be much of a step to put a xmitter online and do some spoofing.

Jim choate says...
> Since most police departments don't encrypt
> (or at least not strongly) their database searches from their in-car
> computers I can see a possible hole here. I really don't expect it to stay
> open very long however (a year or two at best).
> 
> I know such data can be accepted by a normal pc w/ a scanner and modem. It
> should not be much of a step to put a xmitter online and do some spoofing.

I think you will find that most modems will NOT demodulate this data, only
the simplest RF data links use modulation schemes compatible with standard
modems.  (For example, the RF Packet Data systems that are merely grown up
versions of the equipment sold to amateur radio operators that does use
modems that comply to CCITT or old Bell standards).

But most police departments that are using mobile data terminals are using
proprietary modulation schemes.  So you would have to determine what type of
systems are in use in the target area, and then obtain a compatible unit
with a spoofed unit identification.

Not that easy.  A lot harder than just monitoring these transmissions.

Check out a publication called "The SPEC-COM Journal", available at
Ham Radio stores near you, this is the definitive guide to different and
experimental modulation schemes that Hams are playing with.



-- 
Rusty H. Hodge, Cyberneticist  <rustman@netcom.com>

Jim Choate writes:

> Glad to meet another 'proffesional' security person. I worked for a major
> university doing all kinds of physical security and access abuse for 5 years.
> Was a lot of fun and got to play with all kinds of nifty stuff...:)
> 
> My favorite is the toilet roll camera made for Airports....
	

Whoah! Tell us more!

This sounds pretty ominous. No shit. I guess this is what cops really
mean when they say they'll "wipe for fingerprints."

--Tim


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

Tcmay@netcom.com wrote 
 |-------------------------------|
>
>Jim Choate writes:
>
>> Glad to meet another 'proffesional' security person. I worked for a majo
>> university doing all kinds of physical security and access abuse for 5 y
>> Was a lot of fun and got to play with all kinds of nifty stuff...:)
>>
>> My favorite is the toilet roll camera made for Airports....
>
>
>Whoah! Tell us more!
>
>This sounds pretty ominous. No shit. I guess this is what cops really
>mean when they say they'll "wipe for fingerprints."
>
>--Tim
 |-------------------------------|

Did you hear that the police latrine was stolen?

The cops have nothing to go on.


                    Terry Smith - XANTH sysop - 1:259/510
                CI$ 70733,3013 PGP 2.3A KEY FREQABLE AS 'KEY'.
 My opinions are not that of my company. But one day they WILL be! And then -
                        the -+*WORLD*+- Bwaw ha ha !!.
                       Read the Tick and others by NEC.
       Geraldo - "So, Mr. Smith, you admit you like to eat babies!"
                Me - "Nono - I admit I like to eat BABES!"

---
 * TLX v1.55 * "And I really got hot when I saw Jeanette Scott..."

Tim May writes -

> > My favorite is the toilet roll camera made for Airports....
> 	
> 
> Whoah! Tell us more!
> 
> This sounds pretty ominous. No shit. I guess this is what cops really
> mean when they say they'll "wipe for fingerprints."

hee hee..  

You deserve an extra drumstick from the Christmas goose for that one,
Tim. ,-)

- Paul

Hi Tim,

Hope you are having a good holiday...I am....:)

Anyway, I got this catalog from some security convention that I went to which
had all kinds of cameras in objects. They had them in toilet paper tubes for
Airports (after seeing this I always put my jacket over the toilet paper roll
in public restrooms....:) and clocks for Banks and semi-public areas.
Generaly they would have a fiber optic cable run a few inches to a small
vidicon type setup. There are also the ones made w/ CCD's which may or may
not have a cable to them. With the b/w cameras it is possible to digitize the
video and store it on audio cassettes (there was a toy camera a couple of
years ago which used this technology, it is still highly prised by amateur
roboticists) or even send it over a am rf link (one of the local volunteer
fire depts. uses this technology for fighting brush fires).

Any particular questions? Can't promise an answer...