NODE 2b407fc0Re: postmaster@lance.colostate.edu speaks
Peter shipley <shipley@merde.dis.org>Thu, 20 Jan 94 10:44:17 PST
Since postmaster@lance.colostate.edu will not aid us in
requesting L. Detweiler <ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
to behave I guess we will have to start cc'ing (and forward
out prevous emailings) to
postmater@colostate.edu
as well as:
Julian Kateley <KATELEY@COLOSTATE.EDU>
(303) 491-5778
and
Stew McPherson <STEW@YUMA.ACNS.COLOSTATE.EDU>
(303) 491-7214
being that they are the Administrative and Technical Contact
for the Domain Name COLOSTATE.EDU
NODE 1c21e4efRe: postmaster@lance.colostate.edu speaks
Rolf Michelsen <Rolf.Michelsen@delab.sintef.no>Fri, 21 Jan 94 00:20:41 PST
On Thu, 20 Jan 1994, Peter shipley wrote:
> Since postmaster@lance.colostate.edu will not aid us in
> requesting L. Detweiler <ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
> to behave I guess we will have to start cc'ing (and forward
> out prevous emailings) to
>
> postmater@colostate.edu
>
> as well as:
>
> Julian Kateley <KATELEY@COLOSTATE.EDU>
> (303) 491-5778
> and
> Stew McPherson <STEW@YUMA.ACNS.COLOSTATE.EDU>
> (303) 491-7214
>
> being that they are the Administrative and Technical Contact
> for the Domain Name COLOSTATE.EDU
>
I decided long ago that I did not want to participate in the Detweiler
sage. However now I just can't keep my mouth shut anymore!
[flame mode on]
Do you fight noise by being noisy yourself?? To me you won't be much
better than Detweiler himself by adopting this aproach. You have read
postmaster's statement on the Detweiler case, and in my opinion his
views must be respected.
It is a little strange to observe a group fighting for privacy and
anonymity in the electronic community start whining about harassments
from anonymous users. We all know that cryptography, anonymity etc are
two-edged swords, and we all have argued that the "good" properties more
than offset the "bad" ones. Now we have tasted one of the "bad"
properties of anonymity on the net -- perhaps a healthy lesson.
The Detweiler problem seems to be solving itself. I haven't seen any
posts neither to this list or to any of "his" usenet groups lately and
postmaster indicates that it is Detweiler's intention to stop the
flooding of the net. It is only us other users, now including myself,
who keep the memory of Detweiler alive. Let's give it a break.
[flame mode off]
-- Rolf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rolf Michelsen Phone: +47 73 59 87 33
SINTEF DELAB Email: rolf.michelsen@delab.sintef.no
7034 Trondheim Office: C339
Norway
----------------------------------------------------------------------
NODE 84d48bc8Re: postmaster@lance.colostate.edu speaks
Peter shipley <shipley@merde.dis.org>Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:06:51 PST
being postmaster on the system dis.org (where the remailer that
Detweiler used to do most of his dirty work exists) I have recived
more then my share of complaints about reamailer.
(not that I set up the first remail on a privately owned machine, thus
risking a few grand in hardware so that I can personly garrentee that
the sysad sendmail logs will not be released to anyone).
I am still reciving complaints from the shitmail send out from him,
now do you want to talk about noise?
>
>[flame mode on]
>
>Do you fight noise by being noisy yourself?? To me you won't be much
>better than Detweiler himself by adopting this aproach. You have read
>postmaster's statement on the Detweiler case, and in my opinion his
>views must be respected.
>
>It is a little strange to observe a group fighting for privacy and
>anonymity in the electronic community start whining about harassments
>from anonymous users. We all know that cryptography, anonymity etc are
>two-edged swords, and we all have argued that the "good" properties more
>than offset the "bad" ones. Now we have tasted one of the "bad"
>properties of anonymity on the net -- perhaps a healthy lesson.
>
>The Detweiler problem seems to be solving itself. I haven't seen any
>posts neither to this list or to any of "his" usenet groups lately and
>postmaster indicates that it is Detweiler's intention to stop the
>flooding of the net. It is only us other users, now including myself,
>who keep the memory of Detweiler alive. Let's give it a break.
>
>[flame mode off]
>
>-- Rolf
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Rolf Michelsen Phone: +47 73 59 87 33
>SINTEF DELAB Email: rolf.michelsen@delab.sintef.no
>7034 Trondheim Office: C339
>Norway
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
NODE b96e1128Re: postmaster@lance.colostate.edu BOUNCE
css@netcom.com (Chris Schefler)Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:56:50 PST
>
> being postmaster on the system dis.org (where the remailer that
> Detweiler used to do most of his dirty work exists) I have recived
> more then my share of complaints about reamailer.
>
> (not that I set up the first remail on a privately owned machine, thus
> risking a few grand in hardware so that I can personly garrentee that
> the sysad sendmail logs will not be released to anyone).
>
> I am still reciving complaints from the shitmail send out from him,
> now do you want to talk about noise?
>
> >
> >[flame mode on]
> >
> >Do you fight noise by being noisy yourself?? To me you won't be much
> >better than Detweiler himself by adopting this aproach. You have read
> >postmaster's statement on the Detweiler case, and in my opinion his
> >views must be respected.
> >
> >It is a little strange to observe a group fighting for privacy and
> >anonymity in the electronic community start whining about harassments
> >from anonymous users. We all know that cryptography, anonymity etc are
> >two-edged swords, and we all have argued that the "good" properties more
> >than offset the "bad" ones. Now we have tasted one of the "bad"
> >properties of anonymity on the net -- perhaps a healthy lesson.
> >
> >The Detweiler problem seems to be solving itself. I haven't seen any
> >posts neither to this list or to any of "his" usenet groups lately and
> >postmaster indicates that it is Detweiler's intention to stop the
> >flooding of the net. It is only us other users, now including myself,
> >who keep the memory of Detweiler alive. Let's give it a break.
> >
> >[flame mode off]
> >
> >-- Rolf
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Rolf Michelsen Phone: +47 73 59 87 33
> >SINTEF DELAB Email: rolf.michelsen@delab.sintef.no
> >7034 Trondheim Office: C339
> >Norway
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
NODE 141ab28eA Detweiler Lesson
Arthur Chandler <arthurc@crl.com>Fri, 21 Jan 94 08:56:53 PST
I agree with Rolf -- it's the old saw about people turning into their
own enemies. Done right, we become what we love. Done wrong, we become
what we hate.
It's been a real education to watch some folks on this list
try to crack remailers, to attempt to get into Detweiler's personal life,
to threaten him with violence, etc.
"Anonymity is a precious asset of Netlife!"
"Freedom of speech is a sacred right!"
"I may disagree with what you say; but I'll defend to the death your
right to say it!"
Then, when someone comes along whose opinions clash violently with our
own, instead of just 86ing them with the delete key, we flame back, write
to the postmaster of his home address, etc.
As a consolation, I'll offer arthurc's First Law of Technology:
* A technology has truly arrived when the new problems it gives rise to
approach in magnitude the problems it was designed to solve.*
(
))
((
)))
((()) (
) ((()))) ())
( ((( ) )))()) )
))) ))) (()) (( (()
) (( ))) )) (() ))() )
() ))) (() ())) (() (() ((
(())()) )() )(()) ))) (() ) ))
()())())( (()))) (())()() ()))
() (()) ((())) (())
Hey, this isn't a flame! :<)
NODE 1ed32610Re: A Detweiler Lesson
szabo@netcom.com (Nick Szabo)Fri, 21 Jan 94 09:56:55 PST
Arthur Chandler:
> It's been a real education to watch some folks on this list
> try to crack remailers, to attempt to get into Detweiler's personal life,
> to threaten him with violence, etc.
So, this is only supposed to work one way? If someone uses remailers
to dig into my personal life, accuse me of criminality, and threaten
me with violence, I'm supposed to just meekly take it?!!!!!!!!
I have the feeling Arthur Chandler's another one of the "Detweiler's
in my kill file" folks who needs a clue about what has been going on.
I'll send him my Detweiler archive forthwith so he can do his homework.
Nick Szabo szabo@netcom.com
NODE 18e67596Re: A Detweiler Lesson
Arthur Chandler <arthurc@crl.com>Fri, 21 Jan 94 10:06:55 PST
Dear Nick:
Thanks for the reasoned, even-tempered, and well-researched reply. As a
named tentacle in the SQUISH spectacular, and as a modestly frequent
contributer to the anonymity versus responsibility threads, I believe I
can qualify as one who has done his homework. Detweiler is not in my kill
file -- nor are you. But as for your unsolicited 132K forward of sundry
spams, I am depositing it where, in my considered judgement, it belongs.
______
\ \.
|`\_____\
|` | |
__-====-__ | | |
(~< >~>_| | |
{~~-====--~~: \ | |
!~~------~~/----`+----/
\ \___ /
>------\ \ <
<_________________>
On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Nick Szabo wrote:
>
> Arthur Chandler:
> > It's been a real education to watch some folks on this list
> > try to crack remailers, to attempt to get into Detweiler's personal life,
> > to threaten him with violence, etc.
>
> So, this is only supposed to work one way? If someone uses remailers
> to dig into my personal life, accuse me of criminality, and threaten
> me with violence, I'm supposed to just meekly take it?!!!!!!!!
>
> I have the feeling Arthur Chandler's another one of the "Detweiler's
> in my kill file" folks who needs a clue about what has been going on.
> I'll send him my Detweiler archive forthwith so he can do his homework.
>
> Nick Szabo szabo@netcom.com
>
NODE 39590c3fRe: postmaster@lance.colostate.edu speaks
nate@VIS.ColoState.EDU (CVL staff member Nate Sammons)Thu, 20 Jan 94 13:36:48 PST
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
writes Peter shipley:
>
>Since postmaster@lance.colostate.edu will not aid us in
>requesting L. Detweiler <ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
>to behave I guess we will have to start cc'ing (and forward
>out prevous emailings) to
>
> postmater@colostate.edu
>
> as well as:
>
> Julian Kateley <KATELEY@COLOSTATE.EDU>
> (303) 491-5778
> and
> Stew McPherson <STEW@YUMA.ACNS.COLOSTATE.EDU>
> (303) 491-7214
>
> being that they are the Administrative and Technical Contact
> for the Domain Name COLOSTATE.EDU
>
>
>
Julian is the head of ACNS (Academic Computing and Network Services)
at CSU, and has no direct influence on lance, since lance (the network)
is run by Engineering. Stew is the chief guy at ACNS, so is no help either.
Both are very powerful people, with lots of clout/respect around CSU,
but neither are in charge of LANCE.
Just fyi.
- -nate
- --
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Nate Sammons <nate@VIS.ColoState.Edu> <nate@yuma.ANCS.ColoState.Edu> |
| Colorado State University Computer Visualization Laboratory |
| Data Visualization/Interrogation, Modeling, Animation, Rendering |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+