Re: STEALTH OCEANS

Sergey Goldgaber <sergey@delbruck.pharm.sunysb.edu> writes:

>> might work, except for the fact that fragmentation _does_ go on, and when 
>> you were to write files to the drive (heck, I do every time I start up 
>> windows and write a huge temp swapfile) you're going to be playing 
>> roulette with your data. 

>This problem is solved by simply using a utility that writes directly to the
>disk (exactly in the specified sectors, in the specified order), instead 
>of letting DOS fragment your disk.


I've been talking to Sergey behind the scenes, and I think I understand 
what our miscommunication was: he is proposing this type of technique 
ONLY for removable-type media, e.g. floppies. 


To store this type of data on your harddrive would be to dedicate your
harddrive to stego. This was my argument all along; what we failed to
connect on was the fact that only floppies are involved. With floppies,
every write *can* be controlled and the data would be relatively safe (and
obscure, for that matter). 


This correction is being posted to the list because his original post 
said nothing about removable media.


mt

Matt Thomlinson                               Say no to the Wiretap Chip!
University of Washington, Seattle, Washington.
Internet: phantom@u.washington.edu      	    phone: (206) 548-9804
PGP 2.2  key available via email or finger phantom@hardy.u.washington.edu

On Thu, 24 Feb 1994, Matt Thomlinson wrote:

> 
> Sergey Goldgaber <sergey@delbruck.pharm.sunysb.edu> writes:
> 
> >> might work, except for the fact that fragmentation _does_ go on, and when 
> >> you were to write files to the drive (heck, I do every time I start up 
> >> windows and write a huge temp swapfile) you're going to be playing 
> >> roulette with your data. 
> 
> >This problem is solved by simply using a utility that writes directly to the
> >disk (exactly in the specified sectors, in the specified order), instead 
> >of letting DOS fragment your disk.
> 
> 
> I've been talking to Sergey behind the scenes, and I think I understand 
> what our miscommunication was: he is proposing this type of technique 
> ONLY for removable-type media, e.g. floppies. 


I am proposing this as a practical solution that can be implemented 
effectively mainly on floppies.  Hard-drives might have to be dedicated 
to stegonagraphy (As Matt points out below).

> To store this type of data on your harddrive would be to dedicate your
> harddrive to stego. This was my argument all along; what we failed to
> connect on was the fact that only floppies are involved. With floppies,
> every write *can* be controlled and the data would be relatively safe (and
> obscure, for that matter). 
> 

So it seems.  However, I am wary of the possibility that there are 
drawbacks to the scheme that I haven't even considered yet.  I'm hoping 
that other astute readers such as yourself may be able to point them out; 
as, practical stegonagraphy may become a necessity in the near future.

> 
> This correction is being posted to the list because his original post 
> said nothing about removable media.
> 

My original post only outlined the basic premises.  I had not, at that 
point, realized that floppy use would be a virtual necessity.

> 
> mt
> 
> Matt Thomlinson                               Say no to the Wiretap Chip!
> University of Washington, Seattle, Washington.
> Internet: phantom@u.washington.edu      	    phone: (206) 548-9804
> PGP 2.2  key available via email or finger phantom@hardy.u.washington.edu
> 
> 

Thanks for your insights and neverfailing tenacity, Matt.


Sergey