Enuf is enuf!

Hi all!

I _pay_ to read what's on this list. I was hoping that it would concern
cryptography, remailers, etc. Detweiler was gone for a time. Now
apparently it's the current fashion to flame him since he's returned. I'm
not gonna pay to read rants against him. Do _something_ or talk in
private. Does any of this shit belong on the list? And should I have to
pay for it?

I _know_ there are good minds out there, but why do I get all of these
flames? Not quite what I was expecting. If you wanna talk crypto, post
here. If you wanna beat Detweiler into the ground, please do it in private
email! I _really_ don't care to hear attacks on another person. (Like
that's why I subscribe? NOT!)

Bruce

> I _pay_ to read what's on this list. I was hoping that it would concern

Then I would humbly suggest that you drop whatever service provider is
ripping you off by charging you for connect time, per-message, etc. and go
with someone like Netcom, who charges a flat fee per month.  Why pay for
Compu$erve?  It's one of the most expensive around. 

I pay to read what's on this list, too - but like Tim May and others, I
got wise a while back and got an account with a service provider who
charges me a flat fee for access.  I would *never* use a service much that
charged me per-hour - there are just too many out there who won't. 

Yes, I, too have a Compuserve account - I use it for about 10 minutes a
month, usually for figuring out airline schedules and surfing Newsgrid.
I've got this nifty expect(1) script gizmo that dials up Compu$erve, sucks
off mail and Newsgrid, then drops the connection.  I pay about $7 a month
or so.  I use Netcom for everything else, and I usually rack up around 4
hours a day on Netcom.  I *still* only pay $18/month.

> Yes, I, too have a Compuserve account - I use it for about 10 minutes a
> month, usually for figuring out airline schedules and surfing Newsgrid.

Isn't there any way we could make even that stuff available on the Internet,
so that there wouldn't be any need to use CS at all?

	Julf

>> Yes, I, too have a Compuserve account - I use it for about 10 minutes a
>> month, usually for figuring out airline schedules and surfing Newsgrid.

>Isn't there any way we could make even that stuff available on the Internet,
>so that there wouldn't be any need to use CS at all?

Yes, with a pay-per-use information vending machine.  The reason that
some service are on CI$ to begin with is that they get money based on
usage.

Eric

On Fri, 18 Feb 1994, Johan Helsingius wrote:
> > Yes, I, too have a Compuserve account - I use it for about 10 minutes a
> > month, usually for figuring out airline schedules and surfing Newsgrid.
> Isn't there any way we could make even that stuff available on the Internet,
> so that there wouldn't be any need to use CS at all?

My local Bell in (810) has a free system called "touch-4."  It's just a 
voicemail system but it has airline schedules and the cheapest rates if 
you give it a destination and a date.  You need to listen to a couple 
commercials but it's a free call for me.  I don't know if any of this 
information is on the net.
        _            __  __      _ _ _        
    _  | |___ _ _   |  \/  |__ _| | (_)_ _   <*>  Jonathan Scott Mallin
   | |_| / _ \ ' \  | |\/| / _` | | | | ' \  <*>  <jmallin@umich.edu>
    \___/\___/_||_| |_|  |_\__,_|_|_|_|_||_| <*>  Email for PGP key 
-> This entire message is (C) 1994 by Jonathan Mallin.  Reproduction is <-
-> prohibited without express written consent.                          <-

Johan Helsingius says:
> 
> > Yes, I, too have a Compuserve account - I use it for about 10 minutes a
> > month, usually for figuring out airline schedules and surfing Newsgrid.
> 
> Isn't there any way we could make even that stuff available on the Internet,
> so that there wouldn't be any need to use CS at all?

Thats probably a business opportunity for someone. An authenticated
way of browsing and charging airline tickets by net is much needed.

.pm

Bruce Dovala writes:

> I _pay_ to read what's on this list. I was hoping that it would concern
> cryptography, remailers, etc. Detweiler was gone for a time. Now
> apparently it's the current fashion to flame him since he's returned. I'm
> not gonna pay to read rants against him. Do _something_ or talk in
> private. Does any of this shit belong on the list? And should I have to
> pay for it?

Hey. like, I pay to read what's on this list, and, like, I'm getting
really tired of fuck-wads ranting about their being too much ranting,
and, like, you know, I'm like not going to take it anymore. Read me?

---end of all-too-common rant---

Explanation of above rant: I'm not singling my colleague Bruce out for
criticism, but this business of people complaining that the List is
straying from what _they_ want to hear about that day is
wrong-headed. Especially stuff about "I pay to read this list and...."

The recent "flames" about Detweiler have been about the extremely
important issues of remailer policy, handling of mailbombs, options
for screening, advisability of screening and blocking, etc. The
discussion has been remarkably free of flames qua flames against poor
Larry himself, as 90% of us take it as a given that he's gone 'round
the bend.

The List talks about what people write about, period.

The current discussion about remailer policy, source screening, pros
and cons of these views, etc., is a whole lot more timely and relevant
than discussing "cryptography," if by cryptography one means the
eights rehashing of DES, the fifteenth debate about sources of random
numbers, or the twenty-third explanation of how PGP works.

Meanwhile, anyone is free to raise new issues. Or even old ones. Those
who want to respond, will. The democratic market in action.

But please don't attempt to "shame" others into not talking about some
subject just because it's not what you want to hear about that day.
Just delete messages you don't want to see. If, for some reason, you
have to pay some outrageous amount per message (as Prodigy and others
have been known to do), then this list is probably not for you.

Or find a better Internet provider.

--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power:2**859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.