Re: Clipper Comparisons for non-geeks

> Well, one way I've described the clipper to a non-computer literate
> person is to have them imagine a situation where the government
> required that you gave them a copy of your housekey, and, if you
> decided to get a safe-deposit-box, they would get a copy of that, too.

Yep.  And your car keys.  And your bicycle lock.  And the bag you
deposit your store's money at the bank in.  And of course,
once non-Clipper crypto becomes illegal, if they can't find the escrow
key for your car, they'll just confiscate it - after all, you were
parking it on a public street.

> Yep.  And your car keys.  And your bicycle lock.  And the bag you
> deposit your store's money at the bank in.  And of course,
> once non-Clipper crypto becomes illegal, if they can't find the escrow
> key for your car, they'll just confiscate it - after all, you were
> parking it on a public street.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was tempted to respond to Bill Stewart's point here with one of my typical
spoof press releases, patterned after the Chicago Housing Authority
(not the name of a band) door-to-door search for weapons. But, alas, I
lack the energy tonight to craft such a post, and, besides, you'd all
know immediately it was a fake. (Or would you?)

The point Bill makes is a valid one. If the State is your landlord,
and that (supposedly) gives the State the right to bypass normal
Constitutional protections, then why does this same logic not apply
(and why won't it be applied increasingly in the future) to frisks of
those walking on public streets, driving on public roads, etc?

(I know the Supremes have ruled on cases invoving search and seizure
on buses, etc., so we're not in a vacuum here. My point is not a
legalistic one, but one based on the Chicago case.)

Speaking of landlords, when I was renting I certainly had no
expectation that the landlord had any "rights" to invite the police in
to inspect my place for guns, drugs, or other such "contraband." Was I
mistaken? (I'm not saying a landlord can't enter the premises...it
depends on the rental agreement. Most landlords give warning. Some may
snoop. But I think letting in the cops, without a warrant, is still an
illegal act. I could be wrong.)

[A practical policy to head off the Chicago situation is this: Even if
the State is the landlord, the role of the State as landlord and as
Police should be kept separate. An even better policy, of course, is
for the State to get out of the business of being a landlord!]

With so much of our world increasingly being owned by the State (the
consequence of a dollar being taxed many times in its life is that the
State ends up controlling lots of land, lots of highways, facilities,
military bases, courthouses, schools, etc. Eventually they may get it
all.), this "we can frisk you because now you're on our turf" approach
may put a de facto ending to the Bill of Rights.

Unless it is stopped, of course.

--Tim May


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Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
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C'punks,

On Sun, 17 Apr 1994, Timothy C. May wrote:

> . . . Speaking of landlords . . .
> But I think letting in the cops, without a warrant, is still an
> illegal act. I could be wrong.)

Happens all the time.  As long as the landlord's entry is legal, so is 
the cops'.
 
> . . .
> With so much of our world increasingly being owned by the State . . .
> this "we can frisk you because now you're on our turf" approach
> may put a de facto ending to the Bill of Rights.

Reminds me of when I used to ride public transit through the Presidio, a 
military reservation in San Francisco.  As the bus entered the Presidio, 
I would usually say to whomever I was sitting with, "you are now leaving 
the United States."

When the expressed puzzlement, I would point out a sign that said 
something like:

		You are now entering a military reservation.
		You are subject to search at the discretion
		of military authority.

Now be advised, the bus just passed through the Presidio from one section 
of "Free San Francisco" to another.  Apparently though, the Constitution 
ended at the gate for everyone--including those in transit.


 S a n d y

Whoa!  Since when is the state your landlord?  Wait a second, when the
settlers moved out west, didn't they own the land they claimed, or did the
state reserve the right to reclaim it from them?

(I know that they can take away whatever they want from you, by force or
otherwise, but where is it written that they explicitly have the right to
invade your property without a warrant?)