RE: Warrentless Search

From: Jeff Davis

Another facet of human nature one can trust is 75% of the population will
follow a direct order without much question, given the person issuing the
order appears to have the authority to do so.  ......
It only takes a matter of seconds to organize a concerted team effort 
to aid the victim- because I am the responsible person.  They are not 
accountable for their actions anymore in their minds, I am.

This isn't civilization, it's gregarious herd instinct ;)
.................................................
This isn't herd instinct; it's innocence & ignorance.  If someone can 
recognize the situation for what it is and has knowledge of what is 
required, they will proceed to contribute according to their informed 
judgement.  If they are not sufficiently familiar with the meaning of 
what they are facing, then they will be amenable to guidance or to the 
appearance of knowledgeable authority.

If you seem to know what the right thing which needs to be done to 
correct a problematic situation, they will accept your commands; but if 
it is recognizable that you don't know what you are talking about or 
what is apropos, you will lose their following.

Blanc

- --------

Blanc Weber <blancw@microsoft.com> writes:
[...]
> This isn't herd instinct; it's innocence & ignorance.  If someone can 
> recognize the situation for what it is and has knowledge of what is 
> required, they will proceed to contribute according to their informed 
> judgement.  If they are not sufficiently familiar with the meaning of 
> what they are facing, then they will be amenable to guidance or to the 
> appearance of knowledgeable authority.
> 
> If you seem to know what the right thing which needs to be done to 
> correct a problematic situation, they will accept your commands; but if 
> it is recognizable that you don't know what you are talking about or 
> what is apropos, you will lose their following.

Stanley Milgraine experiments:

  Subjects were told they were participating in a "learning" study,
  and a confederate was strapped into a chair and electrodes were
  attached (the subject did not know that the confederate was always
  in the chair and was led to believe that they could have been in
  the chair).  The subject is then taken to an adjacent room and the
  confederate is given tasks to perform.  When the confederate made
  an error, the subject was instructed to administer an electric shock,
  with increasing voltage as the study progressed.

  The results were astounding.  ALL subjects continued to administer
  shocks after the confederate began screaming from the other room.
  When he began kicking at the wall, some subjects would stop.  Most
  (90%, I believe) would continue when the examiner would tell them
  that the study would be invalidated if they refused.

  A follow-up study explained the details of the study to new subjects.
  They were told about the confederate and let in on the "secret", and
  then asked how far they would've gone if they were the subject (they
  were not told the actual results).  NONE of the subjects said they
  would have continued with the experiment through the end, even though
  75% (I believe) of the real subjects did.

This is mostly from memory, but the experiment is widely cited in
Psych texts.

This shows that, in real situations, people will follow herd instincts
and obey orders.

rgds-- TA  (tallard@frb.gov)
[awaiting approval of new disclaimer]
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> Stanley Milgraine experiments:
> 
>   Subjects were told they were participating in a "learning" study,
>   and a confederate was strapped into a chair and electrodes were
>   attached (the subject did not know that the confederate was always
>   in the chair and was led to believe that they could have been in
>   the chair).  The subject is then taken to an adjacent room and the
>   confederate is given tasks to perform.  When the confederate made
>   an error, the subject was instructed to administer an electric shock,
>   with increasing voltage as the study progressed.
> 
>   The results were astounding.  ALL subjects continued to administer
>   shocks after the confederate began screaming from the other room.
>   When he began kicking at the wall, some subjects would stop.  Most
>   (90%, I believe) would continue when the examiner would tell them
>   that the study would be invalidated if they refused.
> 
>   A follow-up study explained the details of the study to new subjects.
>   They were told about the confederate and let in on the "secret", and
>   then asked how far they would've gone if they were the subject (they
>   were not told the actual results).  NONE of the subjects said they
>   would have continued with the experiment through the end, even though
>   75% (I believe) of the real subjects did.

This is a little confusing, could you please repost it without so many 
ambiguous pronouns? (like 'they' in the fourth line of paragraph 1 
for example)

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This was the famous Millikan experiment in the 50's (60's?).  The 
Exploratorium has a pretty graphic piece of footage from the original 
experiment.  It shows how much some (most) people have to conform to some 
sort of authority.

Ed Carp, N7EKG/VE3		ecarp@netcom.com		519/824-3307
	             	      an88744@anon.penet.fi
If you want magic, let go of your armor.  Magic is so much stronger than
steel!        -- Richard Bach, "The Bridge Across Forever"