CU Crypto Session Sat

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If old Sam gets his butt in gear, I should have a tape of the crypto
session in Boulder yesterday to transcribe.  Here's a brief report of the
doings.  Dr. Dorthy Denning of Georgetown University presented the escrowed
encryption proposal.  She was talking Boy Scouts and telephones, teaching
kindergarten.  Escrowed encryption was heinously soft peddled by Denning.
The ramifications of escrowed encryption privacy violations by the 
intelligence communities was avoided during the initial presentation.  She
assured everyone that the FBI, with probable cause, would get a court order
for the escrowed keys from NIST and DoJ.

Rebutting was Phil Zimmerman, who was applauded when introduced as being
under criminal investigation.  Phil talked civil liberties, and some of the
uses PGP was finding in countries not nearly as free from gov't intrusion
as the United States.  Phil brought up the point that intelligence agencies
do not play by the same rules as the DoJ and FBI.

Ken Klingenstein, CU director of comp. networking services, brought up the
most interesting news to me.  His perception of the DoD people he was in
contact with was that they considered the escrowed encryption quagmire an
NSA problem and were providing Klingenstein with helpful information.

Denning had been nervous through out her presentation and response to the
rebuttals of Phil and Ken.   Again she avoided the issue of intelligence
community intrusion, focusing on organized crime.

I spoke to Denning briefly after the session.  Eli Nixon, an investigator
for the Zimmerman defense, and I proposed legalization for the drug problem.
Denning sugested that organized crime would move into new territory in such
an event.  Slavery.  (I found that rather anti-climactic after her dramatic
measured pause for effect).

Denning mentioned terrorists.  I rebutted with satellite surviellance.  I 
pointed out that we could read a poker hand via computer enhancement.  This
visibly shook her.  Escrowed encryption is completely unnecessary, and she
had no rebuttal for this.  My information on satellite resolution came from
a physicist who worked at JPL.

I shook Dr. Denning's hand and wished her luck.  She either reads everything
I post, or was briefed beforehand.  She was quite familiar with me.  She
couldn't believe I would discuss classified information on satellite resolution
in casual conversation.  The USAF hand in attendance was as smooth as sandpaper
as well.  As soon as I mentioned SDI, he shot over to evesdrop on the 
conversation I was having with Eli Nixon, et al.

All and all, a fun time in Boulder.   e

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-- 
PGP PUBLIC KEY via finger!  JAFEFFM  Speaking & Thinking For Myself!
 
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>Denning mentioned terrorists.  I rebutted with satellite surviellance.  I 
>pointed out that we could read a poker hand via computer enhancement.  This
>visibly shook her.  Escrowed encryption is completely unnecessary, and she

Some time ago I worked out the theoretical limits on spy satellite
resolution.  It's a simple exercise in optics, if you make optimistic
assumptions like no atmospheric distortion, etc. My only major
engineering assumption was that the objective mirror had to fit inside
the payload fairing of a Titan launcher, i.e., about 2 meters max. The
result, at visible wavelengths and for the slant ranges typical of spy
satellite orbits, was about 1 foot. This was completely consistent
with the leaked KH-11 photos of the Soviet aircraft carrier published
some time back in AW&ST and Deep Black.  Good, but not exactly good
enough to read poker hands, I would say.

Believe it or not, the laws of physics apply even to classified projects.

Phil

> 
> >Denning mentioned terrorists.  I rebutted with satellite surviellance.  I 
> >pointed out that we could read a poker hand via computer enhancement.  This
> >visibly shook her.  Escrowed encryption is completely unnecessary, and she
> 
> Some time ago I worked out the theoretical limits on spy satellite
> resolution.  It's a simple exercise in optics, if you make optimistic
> assumptions like no atmospheric distortion, etc. My only major
> engineering assumption was that the objective mirror had to fit inside
> the payload fairing of a Titan launcher, i.e., about 2 meters max. The
> result, at visible wavelengths and for the slant ranges typical of spy
> satellite orbits, was about 1 foot. This was completely consistent
> with the leaked KH-11 photos of the Soviet aircraft carrier published
> some time back in AW&ST and Deep Black.  Good, but not exactly good
> enough to read poker hands, I would say.
> 
> Believe it or not, the laws of physics apply even to classified projects.
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
A much simpler, computationaly anyway, solution is to look at Hubble...

On Tue, 26 Apr 1994, Phil Karn wrote:

> Some time ago I worked out the theoretical limits on spy satellite
> resolution.  It's a simple exercise in optics, if you make optimistic
> assumptions like no atmospheric distortion, etc. My only major
> engineering assumption was that the objective mirror had to fit inside
> the payload fairing of a Titan launcher, i.e., about 2 meters max. The
> result, at visible wavelengths and for the slant ranges typical of spy
> satellite orbits, was about 1 foot. This was completely consistent
> with the leaked KH-11 photos of the Soviet aircraft carrier published
> some time back in AW&ST and Deep Black.  Good, but not exactly good
> enough to read poker hands, I would say.
> 
What do you get if you assume the largest mirror that can fit in the 
shuttle cargo bay?

   ++PLS

<<What do you get if you assume the largest mirror that can fit in the
shuttle cargo bay?>>

Mirrors could be sectional.  Many mirrors can be joined together into a much
larger mirror.  Take a look at those put it together yourself model kits.
Often the box is much smaller than the finished object.  The mirror size is
limited by the cargo bay, but it doesn't have to fit in the cargo bay when
it is assembled.  Consequently  There could be more than one trip to
catch the satelite and add more mirror segments to it.  (Although this w
would be very hard to accomplish, it isn't impossible...  Take a pice of
paper. Draw a circle.  Draw another circle around it, etc.)  Of course the
camera would have to be built with the maximum mirror circumfrence/area in
mind, but it can be done.

Assuming that the satelite isn't too likely to get hit by debris, the
mirror fragments could be made from some thin, flexible, light material
so that many fragments can be carried out in space..  say some form of
aluminum? or plastic?

Anyone know about this?

>Mirrors could be sectional.  Many mirrors can be joined together into a much
>larger mirror.  Take a look at those put it together yourself model kits.

Remember that when they're joined, they must maintain an accuracy of a
small fraction of a wavelength to not spoil the results.

I'm not saying this is impossible, only very, very difficult. Even for
(especially for?) a well-funded black project.

Phil

Phil Karn <karn@qualcomm.com> writes:
[sat stuff and big mirrors...]
> >Mirrors could be sectional.  Many mirrors can be joined together into a much
> >larger mirror.  Take a look at those put it together yourself model kits.
> 
> Remember that when they're joined, they must maintain an accuracy of a
> small fraction of a wavelength to not spoil the results.

They do not need to be joined.  There already exist examples of "large"
telescopes on the ground that combine the light received by multiple
smaller mirrors into a single "synthetic image."  The individual mirrors
can be small for easy transportation and can be added over time to keep
increasing the resolution...

jim

>They do not need to be joined.  There already exist examples of "large"

Okay, "joined" in the sense that the light collected by each mirror must
be added coherently to produce the final image. This coherent addition
requires precise control of the phase of each component to a small fraction
of a wavelength. This is hard.

Someday there may be phased array antennas operating at optical wavelengths.
Not yet.

Phil