Safeway + Your Privacy

Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database
that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your
information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you
go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't
bother, we have that information."

So if Joe bad guy gets ahold of your checkbook, writes a bunch of checks,
let's say, over a weekend, Safeway doesn't care because the computer sez your
account is Kosher.

Hopefully, someone will have this awful thing happen to them and sue the Shit
out of Safeway for being so negligent. Peter Mc Gowan, the asshole who owns
Safeway, sized down his employees [so his shareholders could make more
millions], which means we have to wait in even longer lines, due to his
excellent insight into the Food Management.

These databases are already collecting information every time we do not pay
in cash. Those bar codes record everything. Safeway has taken this a bit
higher, and I only wish I had someone steal my checkbook and take Safeway to
the cleaners.

KillBarny@aol.com wrote:

> Hopefully, someone will have this awful thing happen to them and sue the
> Shit out of Safeway for being so negligent. Peter Mc Gowan, the asshole
> who owns Safeway, sized down his employees [so his shareholders could
> make more millions], which means we have to wait in even longer lines,
> due to his excellent insight into the Food Management.

Shop somewhere else if you don't like it.

VONS pulled a similar scam a while back, but they gave you a "VonsChek"
card.  Every time you wanted to use a check they'd ask for this card. 
The card had a little magnetic strip that they'd scan.  Anyway, this one
guy I know went in there and the card wouldn't scan, so the cashier
wouldn't take his check.  She said, "Well, sir, you'll need to apply for
a replacement card."  He asked how to do that and she said, "Well, you
need to fill out this form..."  at which time he said "No I don't,"
threw the card at her and walked away, leaving the cashier there with a
cart full of groceries.  Then the manager noticed, and tried to come
over and offer assistance, but he just walked out of the store.  I think
they cut back on that crap somewhat since then; but I don't really know,
since I don't shop there anymore (this was when I lived in California...)

> These databases are already collecting information every time we do
> not pay in cash. Those bar codes record everything. Safeway has taken
> this a bit higher, and I only wish I had someone steal my checkbook
> and take Safeway to the cleaners.

More likely they would take YOU to the cleaners first.  I'm not sure if
this would be the desired outcome, as Safeway might try to cover their
asses by demanding more shit from you like driver's liscense, Social
insecurity number...

C'punks,

On Fri, 15 Apr 1994 killbarny@aol.com wrote:

> Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database
> that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your
> information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you
> go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't
> bother, we have that information."
> 
> So if Joe bad guy gets ahold of your checkbook, writes a bunch of checks,
> let's say, over a weekend, Safeway doesn't care because the computer sez your
> account is Kosher.

Nonsense.  Of course they care, because they will have to eat the bad 
check, not you.
 
> Hopefully, someone will have this awful thing happen to them and sue the
> Shit out of Safeway for being so negligent.  [ irrevelvant rant against
> Safeway's hiring practices ] . . . I only wish I had someone steal my
> checkbook and take Safeway to the cleaners.

And what, pray tell, would be your cause of action?  Why don't you just 
pay cash if you are so bothered?

 
 S a n d y

> 
> C'punks,
> 
> On Fri, 15 Apr 1994 killbarny@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database
> > that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your
> > information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you
> > go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't
> > bother, we have that information."

And Sandy Sandfort responded:
> 
> And what, pray tell, would be your cause of action?  Why don't you just 
> pay cash if you are so bothered?

The thing is- yes of course, one coulpd pay cash to avoid Safeway- and in
fact, perhaps that is one must do. However, it seems to me that we a re
touching on alarger issue here- and that is the fact that these practices
amount to societal surveillance techniques which are being employed with
greater and greater frequency. One has to get a bit nervous, it would seem-
when it becomes easier and easier for the powers that be to track your
every move- including the videos you have rented, the people you have
spoken with or correspaonded with, the books and magazines you have read,
etc. This may not be of concern to the average citizen who is content with
going to work and going home and watching TV every night- but for those who
don't buy into or are actively hostile towards the dominant hegemonic
ideology of this country- surveillance may in fact become a real concern.
Computers make such surviellance, as we have seen, more and more feasible
on a grander scale- both in terms of the amount of information it is
possible to obtian about a person, and in terms of the amount of people
which can easily be watched.
	I am not suggesting a grand conspiricy, although I think that
computer technology could potentially inadvertently give great power to a
centralized government. I suppose that is why it is so important not to
merely say "Hey- pay cash"- but rather to think about the further
implications of surveillance via computer in our society.
Ciao for now,


Julie

__________________________________________________________________________
Julie M. Albright
Ph.D Student
Department of Sociology
University of Southern California
albright@usc.edu

C'punks,

On Sat, 16 Apr 1994, Julietta wrote:

> . . .
> 
> And Sandy Sandfort responded:
> > 
> > And what, pray tell, would be your cause of action?  Why don't you just 
> > pay cash if you are so bothered?
> 
> The thing is- yes of course, one coulpd pay cash to avoid Safeway- and in
> fact, perhaps that is one must do. However, it seems to me that we a re
> touching on alarger issue here- and that is the fact that these practices
> amount to societal surveillance techniques which are being employed with
> greater and greater frequency. . .
>
> 	I am not suggesting a grand conspiricy, although I think that
> computer technology could potentially inadvertently give great power to a
> centralized government. I suppose that is why it is so important not to
> merely say "Hey- pay cash"- but rather to think about the further
> implications of surveillance via computer in our society. . .
> 
> Julie


First, my main point was that the original poster's solution (i.e., "sue 
the shit out of Safeway") was sophomoric.  I don't see any basis for a 
cause of action.

Second, other than pay cash or--as someone else suggested--shop 
elsewhere, what are your options?  These solutions work.  Since Julie 
seems to think they are not enough, what would she suggest?  If one is 
concerned about centralizing power in the government, than that would 
seem to eliminate governmental solutions such as suing or sponsoring 
"privacy" laws, n'est-ce pas?


 S a n d y

As insidious as it seems, there are a couple of advantages to this
commercial invasion of privacy.  firstly it allows you to go through
the checkout counter a bit faster.  Secondly, it allows Safeway to
compile statistical information about what products you're interested
in, and can sell this information to advertisers, which would either
bombard you with junk mail, or unexpected/unwanted phonecalls, but
may also throw in some cupons to sweaten the deal.

(Of course the advantages are not quite all the shoppers...)  Now this
is fairly harmless, however, should something like DT2 require Safeway
to provide its database to the Feds, they will hold practically all
the information they could dream of having about an individual/family.

They can already get all the credit info, at the records of your bank
account, your credit card purchases, phone calls, food purchases, your
trash (sort of like dumpster diving, only more sinister), what more
could they possibly need to know you without your consent?

It really is time to get anon digital cash... :-I

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

killbarny@aol.com writes :
> 
> Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database
> that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your
> information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you
> go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't
> bother, we have that information."
> 
> So if Joe bad guy gets ahold of your checkbook, writes a bunch of checks,
> let's say, over a weekend, Safeway doesn't care because the computer sez your
> account is Kosher.
> 

Hmmm... In this scenario, wouldn't Safeway wind up eating the bad checks?
I realize that it would be a royal pain in the ass for the victim (the 
checkbook owner) to sort out the mess, but it would seem to me that the
victim could prove that he/she didn't sign the checks, leaving Safeway in
the position of having exchanged groceries for worthless paper. This same
problem exists with credit cards to some degree, due to the lax verification
processes in place ay many businesses, and there is some law that limits
your liability in the event of card theft.

Buying groceries may not immediately appear to be cypherpunks-related, but
this thread does bring up a point about 'identity theft' and verification;
I'd be interested to hear from the legal gurus on the Safeway/stolen checkbook
idea.

- -- 
........................................................................
Philippe D. Nave, Jr.   | Strong Crypto: Don't leave $HOME without it!
pdn@dwroll.dw.att.com   | 
Denver, Colorado USA    | PGP public key: by arrangement.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.3a

iQCVAgUBLa7BbQvlW1K2YdE1AQHT/gQA2MZxQw+STucJybjOzyXoegh0RGSsVFCf
kNe4ANK7w40tJ6ne8/OpR27lLoB+K2UIvAEq6ivC+VqAvSMCXF8ycSd2fG0lwdQv
R5AC56K4wN77v9HlOU111oZYSqAbT5J5st6OWube6kUbBicNqnW95E5tNySdvz0L
np/FBAi8TA4=
=MzA6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----