Re: Message Havens, gopherholes

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Okay, I think the discussion has forked somewhere along the way to
"gopherholes" and "message havens".  While I described the message
havens, maybe I didn't do so clearly (after all, it's all worked out
in my mind!) and I may be overlooking something a fresh perspective
will see.

But, the advantages of a message haven are:

* it doesn't send mail, thus eliminating what are the strongest
  objections to anonymous mail - you can't harrass somebody

* it doesn't require you to tell it what messages you want to retrieve

* it doesn't keep a list of pseudonym and true identity mappings,
  which seems to be required for "gopherhole" operation

* it doesn't even need to have a public key: you and your partner can
  use each other's keys, and in every response to a message, you can
  specify what to name the next message, and even include a brand new
  public key if you want, etc.

* if you retreive all the messages, the haven can't figure out who you
  are communicating with (actually, it can't figure out who is
  communicating with you)

Now, about gopherholes:

[description of how randomization and tag changes will make it hard to
 associate pseudonyms and true names]

> Yeah, it certainly isn't trivial to attack.  However, I'd like to

Unless I missed something, you have to tell the "gopherhole" what
messages you want to receive.  This allows the goperhole to associate
your psuedonym and true identity.

More comments!  About message havens and gopherholes.  Nice to see
some crypto being discussed ;)

Karl Barrus
klbarrus@owlnet.rice.edu

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Ok, here's my vision:

Set up an ftp archive site. Assign it a pgp key pair. Set up
one of those ftp-by-mail programs. To send a message to
someone, you give it a random name, asciify it, and use a
chain of anonymous remailers to deposit it on the ftp site
(some crypto-dollars may be required at this point).
Included with the main file is a file with the same name but
a .txt extension, containing some info that will identify it
to the reciever (could be the key id# that it's encrypted
to, or something like "the chicken turns grey at dawn" or
whatever). When you want to check for messages, you string a
message through a few remailers and ftp (it would accept
encrypted reply blocks) *.txt back to you... then just grep
them to determine the target file and repeat the retreval
process... Hmmm..  ok I just realized that this defeats the
whole point of the message haven thing, as it also could be
used for harrassment... oh well, maybe there'll be a use for
it anyway.. but I cant think of it now... damn. Hmm how
'bout this then: just take a message pool like pool-0 or
whatever, and set it up so that when it receives a message
it throws it onto an ftp site, with a separate file for each
day's mail. That way you could ftp once per day and get all
the messages at once, and it wouldn't clutter up your
mailbox. Sender untraceability due to remailers. Receiver
untraceability due to getting all messages. Lack of
harrasement potential (can't force someone to ftp
something). And resistance to mailbombing attacks with the
implimentation of digital postage and storage fees.

Happy Hunting, -Chris.

______________________________________________________________________________
Christian Douglas Odhner     | "The NSA can have my secret key when they pry
cdodhner @ indirect.com      | it from my cold, dead, hands... But they shall
pgp 2.3 public key by finger | NEVER have the password it's encrypted with!"
cypherpunks         WOw            dCD           Traskcom          Team Stupid
  Key fingerprint =  58 62 A2 84 FD 4F 56 38  82 69 6F 08 E4 F1 79 11 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PGP NSA ViaCrypt Phrack EFF #hack LOD/H 950 FBI MindVox ESN KC NUA murder
QSD Hacker DEFCON SprintNet MCI AT&T HoHoCon DNIC TRW CBI 5ESS KGB CIA
RSA Communist terrorist assassin encrypt 2600 NORAD missile explosive hack
phreak pirate drug bomb cocain payment smuggle A.P. bullets semi-auto stinger
revolution H.E.A.T. warheads porno kiddiesex export import customs deviant
bribe corrupt White House senator congressman president Clinton Gore bootleg
assasinate target ransom secret bluprints prototype microfilm agents mole
mafia hashish everclear vodka TnaOtmSc Sony marijuana pot acid DMT Nixon
yeltsin bosnia zimmerman crack knight-lightning craig neidorf lex luthor
kennedy pentagon C2 cheyenne cbx telnet tymenet marcus hess benson & hedges
kuwait saddam leader death-threat overlords police hitler furer karl marx
mark tabas agrajag king blotto blue archer eba the dragyn unknown soldier
catch-22 phoenix project biotech genetic virus clone ELINT intercept diplomat
explosives el salvador m-16 columbia cartel

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