Re: Response to Uni's "Lawsuit" Message

At  8:07 am 5/24/94 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
>How about this, instead:  A company called "ID Anonymous, Ltd." sets up in
>a business secrecy jurisdiction.  It buys Internet access accounts in bulk
>from DGS, Netcom, etc. (ID1, ID2, ID3, . . .).  It then resells them to
>people living in the service territories of the various access providers.
>ID Anonymous, Ltd. collects monthly fees from all of its sub-users.  It
>pays the Internet provider a single check each month for the monthly fees
>of all its anonymous account.  Under such a system, there is no weak
>link.  If a user misbehaves, DGS or Netcom can cut off the offending
>account, but nobody can reveal the identity of the underlying user.  By
>being located in an offshore jurisdiction, ID Anonymous, Ltd. is not
>susceptible to lawsuits or rubber hose techniques.  QED.

I like it.  I'd be willing to participate and refer users to the service.

   dave

C'punks,

On Wed, 25 May 1994, Dave Del Torto wrote:

> At  8:07 am 5/24/94 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> >How about this, instead:  A company called "ID Anonymous, Ltd." sets up in
> >a business secrecy jurisdiction.  It buys Internet access accounts in bulk
> >from DGS, Netcom, etc. (ID1, ID2, ID3, . . .).  It then resells them to
> >people living in the service territories of the various access providers.
> >. . .
> 
> I like it.  I'd be willing to participate and refer users to the service.
> 
>    dave

When I wrote my original message, I was doing it more as an academic
exercise than anything else.  However, I will be moving to Hongkong
sometime in July or August.  I'll look into the possibility of starting
such an anonymity service.  In the meantime, though, anyone living in an
appropriate jurisdiction should feel free to do something like this for
themselves.  Basically, it's just a mailbox operation.  If you get your
monthly charges paid up-front, your risk is very low.  Go for it.


 S a n d y

At  8:07 am 5/24/94 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
>How about this, instead:  A company called "ID Anonymous, Ltd." sets up in
>a business secrecy jurisdiction.  It buys Internet access accounts in bulk
>from DGS, Netcom, etc. (ID1, ID2, ID3, . . .).  It then resells them to
>people living in the service territories of the various access providers.

If I were in law enforcement, and I were faced with the problem of
getting a truename for an account like this, I'd trace back the
contact with the access provider.  No need to try to serve an
overseas subpoena; the user has to access the system somehow.  If
FBI's Big Brother Bill goes through, I can probably do this in
fifteen minutes.

There may also be problems in trying to buy blocks of anonymous
accounts, since the access provider will take the heat for anything
coming out of the account.  If Netcom is willing to drop Cashier
and Scumball, they may not be happy about this whole plan.

   Eli   ebrandt@hmc.edu

C'punks,

On Thu, 26 May 1994, Eli Brandt wrote:

> At  8:07 am 5/24/94 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> >How about this, instead:  A company called "ID Anonymous, Ltd." sets up in
> >a business secrecy jurisdiction.  It buys Internet access accounts in bulk
> >from DGS, Netcom, etc. (ID1, ID2, ID3, . . .).  It then resells them to
> >people living in the service territories of the various access providers.
> 
> If I were in law enforcement, and I were faced with the problem of
> getting a truename for an account like this, I'd trace back the
> contact with the access provider.  No need to try to serve an
> overseas subpoena; the user has to access the system somehow.  If
> FBI's Big Brother Bill goes through, I can probably do this in
> fifteen minutes.

But if it doesn't go through, I don't see how they could trace it.  My 
call to CRL is a local call.  It might be recorded on my end, but I don't 
think CRL's phone bill would show it.  What did you have in mind?

> There may also be problems in trying to buy blocks of anonymous accounts,

And maybe not.  Let's not borrow trouble.  I'm sure they will tell us if 
they don't want our business.

> . . . since the access provider will take the heat for anything
> coming out of the account. . .

Not necessarily.  Remember, they want the status of common carriers.  
Open access to all, but no control of content.


 S a n d y

> > overseas subpoena; the user has to access the system somehow.  If
> > FBI's Big Brother Bill goes through, I can probably do this in
> > fifteen minutes.
> 
> But if it doesn't go through, I don't see how they could trace it.  My 
> call to CRL is a local call.  It might be recorded on my end, but I don't 
> think CRL's phone bill would show it.  What did you have in mind?

Maybe a telephony sort can answer this authoritatively, but I think
the phone company's logs record this information even for flat-rate
local calls.  If not, you can do almost anything with access to a
modern switch...

> > . . . since the access provider will take the heat for anything
> > coming out of the account. . .
> 
> Not necessarily.  Remember, they want the status of common carriers.  
> Open access to all, but no control of content.

This may apply to some providers -- apparently not Netcom.

   Eli   ebrandt@hmc.edu

Date: Thu, 26 May 94 23:27:10 PDT
   From: Eli Brandt <ebrandt@jarthur.cs.hmc.edu>

   Maybe a telephony sort can answer this authoritatively, but I think
   the phone company's logs record this information even for flat-rate
   local calls.  If not, you can do almost anything with access to a
   modern switch...

The #5ESS running version 5E8 can log, as a matter of course, the last
sixteen numbers dialed on a phone line.  But as you note, it's all
software.

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