Re: ID card from hell

Three messages from Tim May concatenated:

>Many of Duncan's refutations boil down to "What about tourists?"
>The answer for the Feds is simple: temporary ID cards for tourists.

>3. The card acts essentially like the one citizen-units would receive,
>perhaps not fully authorizing certain things.
>
>4. Employers, even for casual work, would be required to check these
>cards, 
>
>Electronic "point of sale" terminals, similar to cash machines, could
>make this "painless." Even if cash is not outlawed--a different, and
>even more controversial topic--such "work permits" could be enforced
>in various way.

>I basically agree with Duncan's noble sentiments. I just don't think
>it likely  that the "What about the tourists?" argument will stop the
>national ID juggernaut once it begins to move.

>Perry makes my point well. That some people will be able to skirt the
>system, or that the system will ultimately be unenforceable, does not
>lessen my concerns.

>Anyway, I see the imposition of internal passports--with a name chosen
>for easiest acceptance, probably something like "Social Benefits
>Card"--as very likely and not easily avoided. Just the tying of such
>cards to driving would be devastatingly effective.

As a reader of utopian & dystopian literature since the 1950's (remember,
the Land of Oz was a utopian Socialist State), I was always hung up on
control technology and the possibilities of the State getting carried away.
Since I have been involved with computers and Cypherpunks my outlook has
reversed.

Let's assume for purposes of argument that the Feds have both the will and
the money to impose tight financial and regulatory controls on American
society.  I will even assume that *we* don't exist and there is no high-tech
opposition.
 Let's further assume that they rope in their NAFTA and G-7 (Gang of 7 Major
Industrialized Countries - US, Canada, Japan, England, France, Germany, and
Italy) partners in some sort of control regime to accomplish God knows what.
I guess their psychology is something along the lines of Houseman:

But no they will not,
They must still
Bend their neighbor to their Will
And make me dance as *they* desire
With jail and gallows and Hellfire.

The "Coercive Metaphor" as I like to call it fits in well with Klinton's
Bismarckian orientation.  Note his lovefest with Helmut a few days ago.  He
likes the German model of labor markets (where *all* jobs require a
certificate, where working during your holiday is a federal crime) and
medical care.  Where everything is either mandatory or prohibited.

Opposed to this model is the Anglo Saxon model of individual rights.  (X.25
vs TCP/IP to you networking types.)

Here's the problem for Control Freaks:  even if they get everything they
want it does them no good.  So they get their systems in place and they
start spitting out data.  What do they do with the data?  You run checks on
something the size of the G-7 economy, and you get tons of hits showing
anomalies.  You can't deal with all of them so you tighten your parameters
until you cover the (small) part of the deviate population that you have the
resources to do anything about.

Oh, you can employ all sorts of AI programs to "catch" deviates and you can
automate the punishment systems to deprive the deviants of "benefits" and
permissions.  We see this today with the automatic driver's license
suspensions for a host of offenses."  But cutting people off from "benefits"
just gives them the incentive to *work* for a living and they come out of it
stronger than ever with no ties to the government.  Until you deploy killer
robots to snuff deviates you can't make inroads into deviance purely by the
application of force.  The Commies tried.  Slick Willie only has the balls
to snuff a few Branch Davidians and Retail Pharmaceutical Salesmen.  "Wet
Work" is expensive.  Our prisons are likewise.

In New York City these days the big crusade is against unlicensed drivers
running over kids.  (Apparently, New Yorkers prefer their families to be
decimated by *licensed* drivers.)  The State automatically issues
suspensions and people keep driving.  The record is several hundred suspensions.

Note if you look around that even though there are more control attempts by
the State, things are less and less under control.  Compliance is *not*
increasing.    
Because direct application of force is difficult and expensive, it is rare.
What Control Freaks need is *voluntary* obedience.  But that is based on
respect for powerful institutions (which is falling).  We are primates and
try to get along with our "tribe."  In the past our "tribe" was village,
then local area, then nation state.  Today, technology has broken things up
so that we can form many different sorts of "tribes."  If we obey the mores
of our "tribe" it is increasingly unlikely that that "tribe will correspond
to the geographical nation state.

I obey the mores of my *tribe* -- libertarian net dwellers.  Others are
members of other "tribes."  We will collectively tend not to obey our nation
states and their power will therefore decline.

It is perfectly possible to have a rich full life even though you disobey
your nation state.  You need not even be an outcast any longer.  There are
*other* communities in which you can find full acceptance and support
*without* having to move.

I'm sure there will be much more to say later but I've run down...

>And everyone go out and read or reread Brunner's "The Shockwave
>Rider."

Also Harry Harrison's "Stainless Steel Rat" series.  Not for the technology
but for the philosophy.

DCF

"Nineteen Eighty-Four
Knocking at your door
Will you let it come
Will you let it run
Your life."

 --- Awaiting proper definition of Mime sound file standards.

(Duncan's message not included, because I only want to make a brief
point.)

Not addressed in Duncan's essay was my chief concern: The "National
Benefits Card" is required to get license plate tags. (And maybe other
things, like car and home insurance, etc.)

It's all well and good to talk about disobedience, how the State can't
enforce traffic laws and how the "record" of several hundred traffic
citations shows this, etc. But how this applies to me is a different
matter.

To make this concrete, I recently got a speeding ticket--I was late
for the Saturday Cypherpunks meeting, ironically. The computer form
arrived a week or so ago: pay $130 by such-and-such date (in lieu of
contesting the charge), or the fee will roughly double, and then
double again, and so on. (I'm not sure of what the limits are, but the
fees escalate rapidly). Now my point is this: I plan to pay up, and
all the talk in the world about people with dozens or hundreds of
citations DOES ME NO GOOD.

If I fail to pay, I lose my car insurance (which makes me ripe for a
"deep pockets" lawsuit by anyone who gets into an accident with me).
Lots of other implications. Very real implications. 

It may be that scofflaws who are poor have an advantage--no assets to
seize, no insurance to worry about, etc. But for folks like me, the
notion that such laws can be safely ignored is crazy.

(No offense, Duncan, but I read your rant with enjoyment....I just
didn't see any connection with the reality I see around me.)

I continue to see great dangers here, in tying a national ID card to
transactions we are essentially unable to avoid in this society:
driving, insurance (and let's not argue insurance...I mean it is
unavoidable in the sense of legal issues, torts, etc.), border
crossings, etc.

As an example we haven't talked about recently, the national ID card
would presumably be tied in to income tax filings, in various ways I
won't go into here. The Postal Service, aiming to get into this area I
guess, has floated the idea of electronic filing, ID systems, etc.

Now how will one file taxes without such a card if one is made
mandatory for interactions with the government? Saying "taxes are not
collectable" is not an adequate answer. They may not be collectible
for street punks and others who inhabit the underground economy, but
they sure are for folks like me.

I see nothing in Duncan's essay that applies to me. And that's what
worries me about the move toward national ID systems and complete
traceability of all economic interactions.

--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
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"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Duncan Frissell writes:

> "Nineteen Eighty-Four
> Knocking at your door
> Will you let it come
> Will you let it run
> Your life."
> 
>  --- Awaiting proper definition of Mime sound file standards.

Just for the hell of it...

How much do I get for identifying that quote?  It's from the song "1984"
by the band Spirit, a single released in late 1969.

I'm really impressed, Duncan.

   --Dave.

-- 
Dave Mandl
dmandl@panix.com