Clipper vs. PGP (fwd)

Since I consider myself new to this whole topic, even though I have read 
several articles about PGP and CLIPPER, I wanted to get some more info 
and understanding for my senior seminar next May....  

Does anyone have any opinions on what would happen if the Clipper Chip 
and its associates were all implemented and the general public swallowed 
on it?? Would we as knowledgeable computer people become outlaws??? Would 
be it like 1984?? Would our computer illiterate neighbors try and catch 
us??? 

And going the complete opposite direction (a full 180). If the public was 
able to obtain PGP as easily as we are and they would use it for 
everything, would that lead to the overthrowing of the government and 
therefore cause anarchy, due to the fact the governmnet would be helpless 
in knowing what everyone is doing contrary to the CIA, FBI, etc. being 
able to read everything we write and say through their current illegal 
wiretaps???
 
I'm just looking to get a complete picture. At this moment I would go 
with PGP, but I still see a lot of problems with being on either side. 
They seem so extreme...
 
Aaron

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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 13:37:42 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Aron Freed <s009amf@discover.wright.edu>

   And going the complete opposite direction (a full 180). If the public was 
   able to obtain PGP as easily as we are and they would use it for 
   everything, would that lead to the overthrowing of the government and 
   therefore cause anarchy, due to the fact the governmnet would be helpless 
   in knowing what everyone is doing contrary to the CIA, FBI, etc. being 
   able to read everything we write and say through their current illegal 
   wiretaps???

   I'm just looking to get a complete picture. At this moment I would go 
   with PGP, but I still see a lot of problems with being on either side. 
   They seem so extreme...

You've painted an extreme picture -- so of course it looks extreme.

If the world swallows Clipper, it'll still be possible to keep secrets from
the FBI....just harder.

You're forgetting the danger from organized crime, however.  A key database
becomes an inviting target for org crime and I'd expect it to be
compromised immediately.

There's a special danger if even just the banks swallow Clipper/Capstone.
Do you want your bank accounts protected by keys that organized crime can
access?

--------------------

If the world goes with PGP, the FBI can still get info the way it does
today -- with informers.  It's not a world of all bad guys with only the
FBI a good guy.  When I communicate with you, I don't know what you do
with this message.  Chances are you're a good guy (since almost everyone
is) and if I'm suggesting something criminal, you're likely to send this
message to your local police or FBI (assuming they haven't totally alienated
you by trying to pry your crypto keys out of your cold dead fingers :-).

 - Carl

Aron Freed writes:

> Since I consider myself new to this whole topic, even though I have read 
> several articles about PGP and CLIPPER, I wanted to get some more info 
> and understanding for my senior seminar next May....  

I think you'll have more than enough time to prepare for a seminar
next May! 

> Does anyone have any opinions on what would happen if the Clipper Chip 
> and its associates were all implemented and the general public swallowed 
> on it?? Would we as knowledgeable computer people become outlaws??? Would 
> be it like 1984?? Would our computer illiterate neighbors try and catch 
> us??? 

Keep reading the list and you'll be able to draw inferences from the
topics discussed here. You posted this question a few days ago, as I
recall, and I assume that the lack of responses then is why you're
posting again.

Understand that people rarely write essays in response to questions
like "Why is Clipper bad?" For most of us, mandatory key escrow is
axiomatically bad; no debate is needed.

> And going the complete opposite direction (a full 180). If the public was 
> able to obtain PGP as easily as we are and they would use it for 
> everything, would that lead to the overthrowing of the government and 
> therefore cause anarchy, due to the fact the governmnet would be helpless 
> in knowing what everyone is doing contrary to the CIA, FBI, etc. being 
> able to read everything we write and say through their current illegal 
> wiretaps???

Yes, strong crypto means all of this. And cats will move in with dogs,
Snapple will rain from the sky, and P will be shown unequal to NP.

Seriously, keep reading the list and you will see many discussions of
this issue. You can't expect to see them within days of joining the
list, for obvious rate reasons, but over the next few months the topic
will come up. More to the point, your growing sophistication with the
issues will allow you to draw your own conclusions, always more
valuable than asking for an opinion poll. (Only political science
people think opinion polls are useful, and I suspect even _they_ know
that polls of the Net are statistically meaningless. But they need to
keep their grant money flowing.)

You'll have plenty of time before next May to learn this stuff. Hell,
between now and next May you may have time to implement a few
remailers, write the code for a data haven, and implement Pretty Good
Quantum Cryptography.


--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."