Re: PC Expo summary!!

At 10:26 AM 7/3/94 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote:
>
>About the "Copyright Cypherpunks" blurb:
>
>Had that been an interview I gave, I'd've been pissed off to see
>someone else attach the "Copyright Cypherpunks" blurb on my words.
>Even with my permission (and I assume Dave Mandl and Perry Metzger
>were asked for permission), attaching the words "Copyright
>Cypherpunks" is misleading: Cypherpunks are not an organized group.
>Issuing things in their name creates a misleading impression....and
>might, very unlikely though it is, create some kind of legal pressures
>on us. (An advantage to our disorganization is that governments can't
>find anyone to prosecute for the crimes of the "group.")

Just for the record: I discussed the transcript with RAR (though I didn't
see it) before he posted it.  I made it clear that anything he did with it
was OK with me.  The "copyright" issue is funny: Personally, I generally
anti-copyright things like that.  I didn't even notice the "copyright" when
I quickly skimmed the transcript (which is all I've had time to do--just
checking to see whether I'd made any obviously bone-headed statements).  I
assume it was meant kind of tongue-in-cheek, and nothing more; I agree that
it might call undue attention to the group and piss off list members who
don't want that transcript representing them.  That's perfectly reasonable.
Again, far as I'm concerned, I'd rather the "c" word just didn't appear.

Yeah, it may not be the best piece to distribute to the general public
since, as Perry pointed out, this was specifically an anarchist talk.  The
audience consisted mainly of people who already consider themselves
anarchists and would therefore be interested in these new developments from
that perspective.  Don't know how much sense it makes to people who don't
accept that to begin with.  Personally, I usually don't shy away from using
blatantly political language when I think it's necessary or appropriate,
regardless of the audience (on my radio show, for example), but I can see
how people might think it's counter-productive here.

As far as distribution goes, I'm glad it was posted to the list, at least.
Beyond that, anything that's OK with Perry is OK with me.  But there's no
reason that all list members should be blamed for that talk.  It was just
me and Perry, speaking for ourselves.

One more thing: If anyone were to _charge_ anything for copies of that
transcript beyond a reasonable "handling" fee, I'd be REALLY mad.  That
doesn't include Perry, of course, but I doubt that he's considering making
his fortune off that anyway.

   --Dave.

--
Dave Mandl
dmandl@panix.com

> Just for the record: I discussed the transcript with RAR (though I didn't
> see it) before he posted it.  I made it clear that anything he did with it
> was OK with me.  The "copyright" issue is funny: Personally, I generally
> anti-copyright things like that.  I didn't even notice the "copyright" when
> I quickly skimmed the transcript (which is all I've had time to do--just
> checking to see whether I'd made any obviously bone-headed statements).  I
> assume it was meant kind of tongue-in-cheek, and nothing more; I agree that
> it might call undue attention to the group and piss off list members who
> don't want that transcript representing them.  That's perfectly reasonable.
> Again, far as I'm concerned, I'd rather the "c" word just didn't appear.

I'm glad you thought it was funny. :-)  At least someone besides myself did.
:-)  It was more for that "pro" look & feel than anything else.

However, I don't seem to have heard from any cypherpunk who felt it was out
of place to put "cypherpunks" on it rather than just you and Perry.  Okay,
so Tim did complain, but I don't take his complaint to be "Oh my god! You've
made me out to be an anarchist" ;-)  So if anyone does have a cow, would he or
she please let me know?  This has been a public service request. :-)

Actually as far as the PC Expo disks are concerned anyone whose articles
weren't on the disk, who didn't contribute anything, and is pissed has no
say in the matter, so I guess other than the few names that made it on the
disk...
 
> Yeah, it may not be the best piece to distribute to the general public
> since, as Perry pointed out, this was specifically an anarchist talk.  The
> audience consisted mainly of people who already consider themselves
> anarchists and would therefore be interested in these new developments from
> that perspective.  Don't know how much sense it makes to people who don't
> accept that to begin with.  Personally, I usually don't shy away from using
> blatantly political language when I think it's necessary or appropriate,
> regardless of the audience (on my radio show, for example), but I can see
> how people might think it's counter-productive here.

But lets not look the obvious.  Perhaps some members of the "underground"
received that disk and were very happy with it?  Perhaps it turned some
anal folks over to the other side?  Anything is possible.  Still perhaps
there will be better materials for the next expo.   Personally I don't find
anything wrong with the transcript.  I enjoyed your speech, and you both
did a fine job at outlining the real legal and fuzzy uses for crypto and
that is a whole lot more honest that what's been spewing out of the NSA
and FBI.  Even if someone didn't agree with all the uses, after reading that
piece he certainly is at least aware of them.  Right?
 
> As far as distribution goes, I'm glad it was posted to the list, at least.
> Beyond that, anything that's OK with Perry is OK with me.  But there's no
> reason that all list members should be blamed for that talk.  It was just
> me and Perry, speaking for ourselves.

The only other place it went was on the PC EXPO disk.  As for blaming the others
for your words, I'd say they should be proud of such blame, and if they object
why have I not heard from them yet?  Certainly I do not think that Tim
would object to being called a crypto-anarchist, other than Perry he's the only
one I've really heard complain about the copyright.

> One more thing: If anyone were to _charge_ anything for copies of that
> transcript beyond a reasonable "handling" fee, I'd be REALLY mad.  That
> doesn't include Perry, of course, but I doubt that he's considering making
> his fortune off that anyway.

So then I did do well to place a "NOT FOR SALE" tag on the file.