"True Names," chat with Vinge, and Cypherpunks

Some random comments that may interest some of you.

Someone asked me for some novels he could read that might cover some
cypherpunkish topics. These are some titles I gave him:

* Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
* Vinge, True Names
* Card, Ender's Game
* Gibson, Neuromancer

(He's currently reading Orwell's "1984," which is of Required Reading
to remain on our list! I read '1984" when I was in the 7th grade, in
1966, probably before many of you were born.)

Vernor Vinge's "True Names" comes up in another context: I spent all
of Sunday talking to Vernor and several other bright folks in the
aftermath of a great party in the hills of Marin County, right next to
Skywalker Ranch.

My mad scientist/entrepreneur friends Bob Fleming and Cherie Kushner,
in whose startup company I've invested some money, had a party to
celebrate something or other. As it turned out, noted author--and
winner of the Hugo Award fpr Best Novel last summer for "A Fire Upon
the Deep"--Vernor Vinger was giving a talk on cyberspace and whatnot
at Interval Research on Friday, so they invited him to stay at their
place. (Interval is doing futuristic work in a lot of areas, and is
funded by billionaire Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft.)

I don't plan to recap the party; that's just a party.

But the discussions on Sunday (some of stayed over, due to the long
distances back to our homes, or as with Vernor, in lieu of a night in
a hotel) touched on point of interest to our list.

Also there were Eric Hughes, who you all know, and Alan Huang, who
built one of the world's first optical computers for Bell Labs.
(Alan's project, which included work on optical switchers, terabit per
second Sagnac fibers, optical cellular automata, and even crypto, was
cancelled by AT&T because they decided to concentrate on other
things....Alan chose to leave AT&T and is now planning a move to the
Bay Area to set up something here.)

In my years of being able to worm my way into high-power discussions,
at universities, at Intel, and at too many conferences to remember, I
can't recall being in such a conversation as this, with everyone of
the highest possible caliber. (I'm just calling it as I see it.)

Wormholes, reversible computation, the 7,000-Cray NSA computer, the
problems with nanotech, the problems with AI, the Tines and the
Powers, the Extropians group (Vernor was curious), the Singularity,
and the implications of the OJ Simpson case were a few of the
topics. (Yes, several of us had "wasted" our time watching this
case. Me, I think it's drama of truly Shakespearean proportions, and
should not be "dissed" just becuase it's getting more attention than
the Rhwandans and Haitians are getting...not to mention the boring
Bosnians.)

I'd met Vinge a few times before, notably at the 1989 Hackers
Conference, but this time I got to spend enough time to really get
some information exchanged. We all left Bob and Cherie's place at 7
p.m., as they took Vernor down to the SF airport, and as the rest of
us scattered.

With all the telecommunications we have, nothing beats an intensive
face-to-face session. Which is why I still live within driving
distance of the Silicon Valley and the Bay Area in general.

Sorry if this message seems too personal, but I felt the urge to
"share."

And at least it's not a forward.

--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

On Tue, 12 Jul 1994, Timothy C. May wrote:

> But the discussions on Sunday (some of stayed over, due to the long
> distances back to our homes, or as with Vernor, in lieu of a night in
> a hotel) touched on point of interest to our list.

[ ... some deleted ... ]

> Wormholes, reversible computation, the 7,000-Cray NSA computer, the
> problems with nanotech, the problems with AI, the Tines and the
> Powers, the Extropians group (Vernor was curious), the Singularity,
> and the implications of the OJ Simpson case were a few of the
> topics. (Yes, several of us had "wasted" our time watching this
> case. Me, I think it's drama of truly Shakespearean proportions, and
> should not be "dissed" just becuase it's getting more attention than
> the Rhwandans and Haitians are getting...not to mention the boring
> Bosnians.)

Did Vinge have anything of interest to the list to say that you could 
pass on?

Wes thu hal,
Al Billings

> > Wormholes, reversible computation, the 7,000-Cray NSA computer, the
> > problems with nanotech, the problems with AI, the Tines and the
> > Powers, the Extropians group (Vernor was curious), the Singularity,
> > and the implications of the OJ Simpson case were a few of the
> > topics. (Yes, several of us had "wasted" our time watching this
> > case. Me, I think it's drama of truly Shakespearean proportions, and
> > should not be "dissed" just becuase it's getting more attention than
> > the Rhwandans and Haitians are getting...not to mention the boring
> > Bosnians.)
> 
> Did Vinge have anything of interest to the list to say that you could 
> pass on?
> 
> Wes thu hal,
> Al Billings

Al is not the only person to ask.

I mentioned the topics we talked about. But he did not speak in
Zarathustra-like aphorisms. Nothing specific to quote, as he wasn't
giving a lecture and we weren't taking notes.

He's working on a sequel to "A Fire Upon the Deep," is writing a story
set deep in the Slow Zone (the Oprah Zone?), and is getting a lot of
publisher attention. 

He had some funny things to say about San Diego State, where he
teaches in the CS department. Ironically, there was a "cyberpunk"
conference held there, and VV was not invited (or was overlooked) So
Bear and Brin, friends of his, kept asking pointedly, "Where's
Vernor?"

On the Singularity, I've already said a fair amount.

He was very interested to hear about the Cypherpunks--he said he'd
gotten some articles forwarded to him. He may attend the September
meeting by M-BONE...Eric Hughes plans to contact Phil Karn to see if a
San Diego hookup is possible for that meeting. (The September meeting,
as we discussed at the CP meeting on Saturday, will be a special recap
of progress, the Second Anniversary meeting.)

This is all I can write for now. Oh, I made it clear to him on several
occasions just how important "True Names" was to the formation of my
own ideas about crypto anarchy (I first discovered it in a
passed-around Xerox samizdat in 1986).

--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Where is Mecca?

On Tue, 12 Jul 1994, Timothy C. May wrote:

> 
> > > Wormholes, reversible computation, the 7,000-Cray NSA computer, the
> > > problems with nanotech, the problems with AI, the Tines and the
> > > Powers, the Extropians group (Vernor was curious), the Singularity,
> > > and the implications of the OJ Simpson case were a few of the
> > > topics. (Yes, several of us had "wasted" our time watching this
> > > case. Me, I think it's drama of truly Shakespearean proportions, and
> > > should not be "dissed" just becuase it's getting more attention than
> > > the Rhwandans and Haitians are getting...not to mention the boring
> > > Bosnians.)
> > 
> > Did Vinge have anything of interest to the list to say that you could 
> > pass on?
> > 
> > Wes thu hal,
> > Al Billings
> 
> Al is not the only person to ask.
> 
> I mentioned the topics we talked about. But he did not speak in
> Zarathustra-like aphorisms. Nothing specific to quote, as he wasn't
> giving a lecture and we weren't taking notes.
> 
> He's working on a sequel to "A Fire Upon the Deep," is writing a story
> set deep in the Slow Zone (the Oprah Zone?), and is getting a lot of
> publisher attention. 
> 
> He had some funny things to say about San Diego State, where he
> teaches in the CS department. Ironically, there was a "cyberpunk"
> conference held there, and VV was not invited (or was overlooked) So
> Bear and Brin, friends of his, kept asking pointedly, "Where's
> Vernor?"
> 
> On the Singularity, I've already said a fair amount.
> 
> He was very interested to hear about the Cypherpunks--he said he'd
> gotten some articles forwarded to him. He may attend the September
> meeting by M-BONE...Eric Hughes plans to contact Phil Karn to see if a
> San Diego hookup is possible for that meeting. (The September meeting,
> as we discussed at the CP meeting on Saturday, will be a special recap
> of progress, the Second Anniversary meeting.)
> 
> This is all I can write for now. Oh, I made it clear to him on several
> occasions just how important "True Names" was to the formation of my
> own ideas about crypto anarchy (I first discovered it in a
> passed-around Xerox samizdat in 1986).
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> 
> -- 
> ..........................................................................
> Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
> tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> 408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
> W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
> Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
> "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
>

83 lines of quotation for one line of sarcasm ?

Timothy C. May says:
> He was very interested to hear about the Cypherpunks--he said he'd
> gotten some articles forwarded to him. He may attend the September
> meeting by M-BONE...Eric Hughes plans to contact Phil Karn to see if a
> San Diego hookup is possible for that meeting.

Considering that we couldn't manage to get JI and Matt Blaze on for
the swIPe session, if anyone really wants to do this it should be
worked on several days in advance of the meeting...

Perry

>Considering that we couldn't manage to get JI and Matt Blaze on for
>the swIPe session, if anyone really wants to do this it should be
>worked on several days in advance of the meeting...

Yeah, sounds like a clean sweep. I spent Saturday afternoon trying to
get the mbone working on my workstation. I was unsuccessful. (It
hasn't worked ince I upgraded to a Sparc 10, not that I spent much
time on it before). I strongly suspect that our $#@!! firewall was to
blame.

Puncturing fascist firewalls was one of the reasons I suggested swIPe
in the first place...

Phil