Re: Nuclear Weapons Material

> 
> There is some confusion in terminology here.  The brass case is indeed
> discarded when the round is fired.  Byt 'casing' he means the exterior of
> the warhead.  The word 'round' is used for both the warhead+gunpowder+brass
> and then for the warhead itself.  Larger artillery pieces do not use a
> brass shell case at all.  The round is loaded, and then the powder is
> rammed in after it.
>
That is called the 'jacket' in all the years I have handled weapons that is
the only correct term for it. The casing is where the powder goes.

We were not talking about artillery pieces in relation to the comment by me on
this issue. I know little about artillery, I do know about tanks and aircraft
because they are a life long interest for me.

> > I can find no reference any U-core round being HE or otherwise carrying a 
> > charge. In all cases that I am aware of and can find reference to it is simply
> > a KE attack on the target where the by products of the impact bounce around
> > inside the target grinding up whatever is in there.
> 
> I believe that this is true, except that the 'products of the impact' are
> drops of metal and what they do is worse than grinding something up.
> --
> Jim Dixon
> 
The pieces in most cases are simply slivers of metal that breaks off the
inside of the tank because of hyper-sonic shockwaves.  They are not molten
and do not in general cause a fire. Other than a lucky hit on a live
round with the ammo door open there is little chance of starting a fire.

Jim choate says:
> > There is some confusion in terminology here.  The brass case is indeed
> > discarded when the round is fired.  Byt 'casing' he means the exterior of
> > the warhead.  The word 'round' is used for both the warhead+gunpowder+brass
> > and then for the warhead itself.  Larger artillery pieces do not use a
> > brass shell case at all.  The round is loaded, and then the powder is
> > rammed in after it.
> >
> That is called the 'jacket' in all the years I have handled weapons that is
> the only correct term for it. The casing is where the powder goes.

Correct -- the Illustrated Encyclopedia of Ammunition fully agrees
with you on this point.

> > > I can find no reference any U-core round being HE or otherwise
> > > carrying a charge. In all cases that I am aware of and can find
> > > reference to it is simply a KE attack on the target where the by
> > > products of the impact bounce around inside the target grinding
> > > up whatever is in there.
> > 
> > I believe that this is true, except that the 'products of the impact' are
> > drops of metal and what they do is worse than grinding something up.
> > 
> The pieces in most cases are simply slivers of metal that breaks off the
> inside of the tank because of hyper-sonic shockwaves.  They are not molten
> and do not in general cause a fire. Other than a lucky hit on a live
> round with the ammo door open there is little chance of starting a fire. 

Correct, in the case of kinetic energy weapons -- shaped charge
weapons end up squirting a jet of molten metal through the armor.
There may be a misunderstanding about what is being discussed here.

However, might I suggest that this has gotten VERY far afield of
cryptography?

.pm

> However, might I suggest that this has gotten VERY far afield of
> cryptography?

I don't know about that--hasn't the State Department been claiming for
years that cryptography is a form of munitions? 

	:) :) :)

Jim choate says:
> The pieces in most cases are simply slivers of metal that breaks off the
> inside of the tank because of hyper-sonic shockwaves.  They are not molten
> and do not in general cause a fire. Other than a lucky hit on a live
> round with the ammo door open there is little chance of starting a fire. 

Actually, my last comment was premature -- I hadn't read what you said
carefully. If you meant to say that such things as discarding sabot
shots don't penetrate the armor directly, according to the Illustrated
Encyclopedia of Ammunition, non-shaped charge armor piercing
projectiles do indeed pierce the armor.

Incidently, I was wrong on one point -- there is a kind of shell
called a "piercing shell" designed to explode after penetration -- but
these are apparently not very successful with modern armor and are
rarely used.

Perry

PS again, this really should be terminated -- it doesn't belong in
cypherpunks.