Nuclear Weapons Material

Let's all rejoice at the birth of the latest member of The Horsemen of
The Criminal Apocalypse -- The Nuclear Weapons Material Smuggler.  
I'm sure his four siblings will make plenty of room for their baby brother.

iqg1550 says:
> Let's all rejoice at the birth of the latest member of The Horsemen of
> The Criminal Apocalypse -- The Nuclear Weapons Material Smuggler.  
> I'm sure his four siblings will make plenty of room for their baby brother.

I will point out, of course, that anyone who can afford the tens of
millions to hundreds of millions the smugglers are reportedly charging
for critical masses worth of Plutonium and Uranium, odds are that they
can afford to buy un-escrowed secure communications equipment...

.pm

In article <9408221335.AA00765@snark.imsi.com>,
"Perry E. Metzger" <perry@imsi.com> wrote:
> 
> iqg1550 says:
> > Let's all rejoice at the birth of the latest member of The Horsemen of
> > The Criminal Apocalypse -- The Nuclear Weapons Material Smuggler.  
> > I'm sure his four siblings will make plenty of room for their baby brother.
> 
> I will point out, of course, that anyone who can afford the tens of
> millions to hundreds of millions the smugglers are reportedly charging
> for critical masses worth of Plutonium and Uranium, odds are that they
> can afford to buy un-escrowed secure communications equipment...

Not to mention the fact that without tritium, the "trigger" for nuclear
weapons (and extremely expensive and rare at $ 100m a gram) all you have
is a radioactive paperweight.

> Not to mention the fact that without tritium, the "trigger" for nuclear
> weapons (and extremely expensive and rare at $ 100m a gram) all you have
> is a radioactive paperweight.

The "trigger" isn't tritium.  Tritium (along with lithium 6) is used
in fusion bombs.  A fission-only device, ala Hiroshima or Nagasaki,
doesn't require any.

The trigger in the center of the plutonium core is a neutron source,
polonium if memory serves correctly.  Tritium is a beta emitter.

	--Paul

werewolf@io.org (Mark Terka) writes:
>   In article <9408221335.AA00765@snark.imsi.com>,
>   "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@imsi.com> wrote:

>   > iqg1550 says:
>   > > Let's all rejoice at the birth of the latest member of The Horsemen of
>   > > The Criminal Apocalypse -- The Nuclear Weapons Material Smuggler.  
>   > > I'm sure his four siblings will make plenty of room for their baby 
>   > > brother.

>   > I will point out, of course, that anyone who can afford the tens of
>   > millions to hundreds of millions the smugglers are reportedly charging
>   > for critical masses worth of Plutonium and Uranium, odds are that they
>   > can afford to buy un-escrowed secure communications equipment...

>   Not to mention the fact that without tritium, the "trigger" for nuclear
>   weapons (and extremely expensive and rare at $ 100m a gram) all you have
>   is a radioactive paperweight.

excuse me? a perfectly serviceable nuclear weapon can be made from
plutonium or sufficiently enriched uranium.

josh

Mark Terka says:
> Not to mention the fact that without tritium, the "trigger" for nuclear
> weapons (and extremely expensive and rare at $ 100m a gram) all you have
> is a radioactive paperweight.

This is sheer ignorance. First of all, tritium is not nearly that
expensive. Its quite cheap, in fact, and can be manufactured without
that much trouble. Second of all, tritium is not a necessary component
of non-thermonuclear (i.e. hydrogen) bombs. Third, tritium isn't a
"trigger". Lastly, an ordinary A-bomb is just a way to bring together
a critical mass of a fissionable material, like U-235 or Plutonium.
Once a critical mass is in one place the chain reaction will handle
the rest.

.pm

[this is wandering off the subject of this list, but...]

> Lastly, an ordinary A-bomb is just a way to bring together
> a critical mass of a fissionable material, like U-235 or Plutonium.
> Once a critical mass is in one place the chain reaction will handle
> the rest.

No, not exactly.  See Robert Serber's "The Los Alamos Primer/The First
Lectures on How To Build An Atomic Bomb" (ISBN 0-520-07576-5),
published by the University of California Press.  

I'll quote from the beginning of Chapter 18:

   "To avoid predetonation, we must make sure that there is only a
   small probability of a neutron appearing while the pieces of the
   bomb are being put together.  On the other hand, when the pieces
   reach their best position we want to be very sure that a neutron
   starts the reaction before the pieces have a chance to separate or
   break.  It may be possible to make the projectile seat and stay in
   the desired position.  Failing in this, or in any event as extra
   insurance, another possibility is to provide a strong neutron
   source which becomes active as soon as the pieces come into
   position.   ...
    
Note that this is especially important with the more efficient
implosion-type bombs, where the critical mass just can't "seat" like
on one of the simple gun-type bombs.  Also note that you can't build a
gun-type bomb using P239; it reacts too quickly.

   "Evidently a source of this strength that can be activated within
   about 10**-5 sec and is mechanically rugged enough to stand the
   shocks involved with firing presents a difficult problem."

The text later states that the initiator used in the first two bomb
designs was a mixture of Polonium and Beryllium.

					- Bill

> Mark Terka says:
> > Not to mention the fact that without tritium, the "trigger" for nuclear
> > weapons (and extremely expensive and rare at $ 100m a gram) all you have
> > is a radioactive paperweight.
> 
> This is sheer ignorance. First of all, tritium is not nearly that
> expensive. Its quite cheap, in fact, and can be manufactured without
> that much trouble. Second of all, tritium is not a necessary component
> of non-thermonuclear (i.e. hydrogen) bombs. Third, tritium isn't a
> "trigger". Lastly, an ordinary A-bomb is just a way to bring together
> a critical mass of a fissionable material, like U-235 or Plutonium.
> Once a critical mass is in one place the chain reaction will handle
> the rest.

Quite true.  All you really need for a fission bomb is a casing to hold 
everything together, 2.2 kilos (or so) of U-235 (or a sufficient quantity 
of critical mass other stuff <grin>), and something that will hold it 
together long enough for it to fission.

And no, Taylor, holding them together in your hands won't work 
(unfortunately)... hehehe :)

"Hey, Bill?  Hold these two shiny pieces of metal in your hands and 
clap!  Oh, wait about an hour while I get a safe distance away..." :)

Exotic way to commit suicide, methinks.  Kiddies, don't try this at home 
- leave this to the professional idiots... ;)

Kinda reminds me of Congress... ;)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG    			Ed.Carp@linux.org, ecarp@netcom.com
Finger ecarp@netcom.com for PGP 2.5 public key		an88744@anon.penet.fi
If you want magic, let go of your armor.  Magic is so much stronger than
steel!        -- Richard Bach, "The Bridge Across Forever"

> Not to mention the fact that without tritium, the "trigger" for nuclear
> weapons (and extremely expensive and rare at $ 100m a gram) all you have
> is a radioactive paperweight.

   But tritium is (relatively) easy to obtain if you have the money.  A 
federal permit is required to purchase it in large quantities in the US, 
but it is still _MUCH_ more easily obtained than plutonium.

-jon