IN H.O.T. WATER

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                         SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

How exciting!  My first anti-fan, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh wrote:

    Sandy's H.E.A.T was hard enough on my poor 'D' key; I
    hope ...  yada, yada, yada ...

While I agree that "Beach Clash" *is* too far afield (sorry,
David), I have a serious and a *seemingly* not-so-serious
reason for "reviewing" Acapulco H.E.A.T.

MY SERIOUS REASON--The world does not see cryptography and
related privacy technologies as do the Cypherpunks.  Most folks
"learn" about crypto from popular culture (e.g., TV and movies)
and, to a lesser extent, the popular press.  When we try to
persuade others to support strong crypto, we have to know what
*they* know (and don't know), if we are to be effective.

MY REAL REASON--Cypherpunks is not just a mailing list.  It is a
wired community of people with strong, commonly held beliefs
concerning privacy.  The problem is, the intensity of our beliefs
and the ultimate seriousness of what's at stake, can lead to a
negative, siege mentality.  I believe there is a place, in every
community of fellow travelers, for humor and humanity.  That's
one of the reasons that physical meeting are so important.  If
you've been to one, you know that it isn't all strategy and
tactics; there is also fellowship.  After a Cypherpunks meeting,
many attendees go out for dinner together.  In California, we
even--god forbid--"bond."  (Not valid in Arizona, Kansas,
Kentucky or where prohibited by law.  Your mileage may differ.
If pain persists, consult a physician.)

Acapulco H.E.A.T., with dubious crypto and suspect technology,
has become an inside joke for Cypherpunks.  When we watch it, we
see things the average person misses.  This is something we
share, and something that helps create the lighter side of
Cypherpunk culture.


 S a n d y

P.S.  I'm serious.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Wed, 28 Sep 1994, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                          SANDY SANDFORT
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> 
> C'punks,
> 
> How exciting!  My first anti-fan, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh wrote:
> 
>     Sandy's H.E.A.T was hard enough on my poor 'D' key; I
>     hope ...  yada, yada, yada ...
> 
> While I agree that "Beach Clash" *is* too far afield (sorry,
> David), I have a serious and a *seemingly* not-so-serious
> reason for "reviewing" Acapulco H.E.A.T.
> 
> MY SERIOUS REASON--The world does not see cryptography and
> related privacy technologies as do the Cypherpunks.  Most folks
> "learn" about crypto from popular culture (e.g., TV and movies)
> and, to a lesser extent, the popular press.  When we try to
> persuade others to support strong crypto, we have to know what
> *they* know (and don't know), if we are to be effective.
> 
> MY REAL REASON--Cypherpunks is not just a mailing list.  It is a
> wired community of people with strong, commonly held beliefs
> concerning privacy.  The problem is, the intensity of our beliefs
> and the ultimate seriousness of what's at stake, can lead to a
> negative, siege mentality.  I believe there is a place, in every
> community of fellow travelers, for humor and humanity.  That's
> one of the reasons that physical meeting are so important.  If
> you've been to one, you know that it isn't all strategy and
> tactics; there is also fellowship.  After a Cypherpunks meeting,
> many attendees go out for dinner together.  In California, we
> even--god forbid--"bond."  (Not valid in Arizona, Kansas,
> Kentucky or where prohibited by law.  Your mileage may differ.
> If pain persists, consult a physician.)
> 
> Acapulco H.E.A.T., with dubious crypto and suspect technology,
> has become an inside joke for Cypherpunks.  When we watch it, we
> see things the average person misses.  This is something we
> share, and something that helps create the lighter side of
> Cypherpunk culture.
> 
> 
>  S a n d y
> 
> P.S.  I'm serious.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 
> 

Well for me as a Daytonian living in the Midwest, I can hardly make the 
journey out to SF every month. Maybe we could branch out Cypherpunk 
groups as a SIG in different cities, so each city or region could have a 
physical meeting once in a while. IT's so crazy it might work...


~!@#$%^&*~!@#$%^&~!@#$%^~!@#$%~!@#$%%@#$%^~!@#$~!@#$%~!@#$%~!@#$%~!@#$%~!@!
| A(a)ron M. Freed            | It is naive to believe people are honest. |
| s009amf@discover.wright.edu | It is naive to believe programmers are    |
| (513)276-3817 (voice)       | honest. It is even more naive to believe  |
| (513)276-4158 (data/fax)    | the government is honest. Down with Big   |
|			      | Brother.		                  |
|_____________________________|___________________________________________|

Aron Freed wrote:

> Well for me as a Daytonian living in the Midwest, I can hardly make the 
> journey out to SF every month. Maybe we could branch out Cypherpunk 
> groups as a SIG in different cities, so each city or region could have a 
> physical meeting once in a while. IT's so crazy it might work...
> 

FYI, there have been some meetings/gatherings in cities other than the
Bay Area. Some that I recall:

* Boston/Cambridge. Had at least two, including audio links to other
sites. Derek Atkins may know more.

* Washington D.C./Northern Virginia. Ditto. Paul Ferguson and Pat
Farrell may know more.

* San Diego. Has been linked up a couple of times. Contact Phil Karn.

* Denver/Colorado. Had at least one meeting, maybe two.

* Seattle. May have had a meeting. 

* L.A. I attended one meeting down there. 

* NYC has a party put on by Eric Hughes and Matt Blaze when Eric
visited, but is not having other meetings, so far as I know (come on
Perry, Duncan, Dave, and Sandy!).

If I left your site out, don't get angry, get vocal!

I've said it in many posts, mostly a year or more ago, and I'll say it
here:

* if you want to meet, meet. Call a meeting and see who shows up. 

* the Bay Area group has had about 24 meetings, each attended by an
average of 30 people (a couple had >50), and yet our population level
that we draw from is about 10 million, comparable to several other
large urban areas. Thus, there's no reason other areas can't get at
least a dozen or so folks.

(I live 50 miles south of the meeting site, Eric Blossom lives 70
miles north, and many others live an average of 40 miles away (SF,
Berkeley, Oakland, etc.). So no one can claim we meet because we're
all close...we're as spread out as the Denver-Fort Collins-Colorado
Springs folks are, for example.)

* So, just plan an informal gathering in your area.

"Why isn't there a sub-list to discuss this?" you may ask. Well, there
is! It exists, but is moribund (like most sub-lists, for Schelling
point reasons).

--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
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subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tcmay

On Thu, 29 Sep 1994, Timothy C. May wrote:

> FYI, there have been some meetings/gatherings in cities other than the
> Bay Area. Some that I recall:
> 
> * Seattle. May have had a meeting. 

We had one (which I was at) and there might have been a second. For some 
reason, there hasn't been any follow-up in the last six or more months to 
them.

Wes thu hal, 
Al Billings