Dorothy

At 11:56 PM 10/5/94 -0700, Ed Carp wrote:

>(BTW) violating every known law of security to do so.  Denning, in a very
>real sense, represents the attitudes of the NSA and the people controlling
>this whole scheme and trying to foist it off onto people.  Is she such an
>idiot that she actually *believes* the nonsense she spouts? 
>
>Is it wrong to suspect her motives, her judgement, her common sense, in
>backing such a proposal?

If we spend a little time thinking about it, I'm sure that we can figure out
DD's psychology.  If we can't understand her views (which are probably more
mainstream than ours) we won't be able to understand anybody's.  

She is a conventional person and thinks that the monopoly of coercion
exercised by the government must be maintained for the good of all.  Many
people share this view.  As a cryptographer, she is aware of the same things
that we are -- that unbreakable crypto combined with the "society on the
nets" breaks this government monopoly of coercion.

The point of Cypherpunks is not to change this almost universally held view
of the legitmacy of "others" government (as opposed to self government).
The point of cypherpunks is to *demonstrate* that the monopoly of coercion
traditionally held by government has been *ended*.  If you change the
physical reality, people's views will change in turn.

Don't be upset with DD.  She hasn't killed anybody.  If we're right about
our analysis of the new balance of power between the individual and the
state, her views don't matter.  If we're wrong, her views *still* don't matter.

DCF

--
"Downsizing, Open Systems, and Distributed Networks for Berlin, London,
Paris, Rome, Tokyo, & Washington, too."  oops forgot Ottawa.

Duncan Frissell writes:
 > Don't be upset with DD.  She hasn't killed anybody.  If we're right about
 > our analysis of the new balance of power between the individual and the
 > state, her views don't matter.  If we're wrong, her views *still* don't matter.

Very well put.

To have someone on the "other side" who (as I hope we all acknowledge)
is quite well-informed about the technology behind the areas of public
policy we're interested in is a rather unique situation.  I consider
it valuable; in a way, it keeps us honest.

Mr. Sternlight, on the other hand, is another story...  (though I was
surprised and delighted by DS's appearance on the other high-volume
mailing list I'm on, the "Chile Heads" digest.  It seems
Mr. Sternlight has a taste for  spicy foods!)

| GOOD TIME FOR MOVIE - GOING ||| Mike McNally <m5@tivoli.com>       |
| TAKE TWA TO CAIRO.          ||| Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX:        |
|     (actual fortune cookie) ||| "Like A Little Bit of Semi-Heaven" |

Paul J. Ste. Marie writes:
 > > surprised and delighted by DS's appearance on the other high-volume
 > > mailing list I'm on, the "Chile Heads" digest.  It seems
 > 
 > So how does one get on this mailing list?  Sounds very interesting.

Since this is the second request, I will take the bold liberty of
wasting a little cypherpunks bandwidth:

	chile-heads-request@chile.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu

Please, don't get on the list just to badger Sternlight.  (Unless of
course he starts claiming people are violating some sort of secrecy
agreement by eating hybrid Del Monte peppers...)  The volume is
surprisingly high, and (though there are bursts of newbie gaffs) the
S/N is pretty good.

| GOOD TIME FOR MOVIE - GOING ||| Mike McNally <m5@tivoli.com>       |
| TAKE TWA TO CAIRO.          ||| Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX:        |
|     (actual fortune cookie) ||| "Like A Little Bit of Semi-Heaven" |