No Guts, No Glory

Responding to msg by warrior@infinet.com ("David M. Harvey I") 
on Thu, 6 Oct 12:3  PM

>****************************************************************
************  
|No Guts, No Glory, No Honor, No Victory, Pillage, Plunder, and 
Take Heads!|  
>****************************************************************
************  


Dave's sig and nom de guerre is taking a beating in today's NYT 
where there is a story about the US military carefully planning 
to avoid casualties in warfare.

It also reports that the brave white collars in think tanks 
think it's a terrible prospect because then no one will believe 
that the US is tough, and tough minds know that "casualites are 
inevitable".

And how will healthy young men and women be taught guts, honor, 
victory, and so on by periodically turning a bunch of them and 
their foes into salsa and crispy critters for evening news 
adulation.

But Dave can still show his humorous sig in a VA abattoir of 
mangled ex-warriors if he really wants to enjoy the sad 
communion of misled youngsters.


John

On Thu, 6 Oct 1994, John Young wrote:

> Responding to msg by warrior@infinet.com ("David M. Harvey I") 
> on Thu, 6 Oct 12:3  PM
> 
> >****************************************************************
> |No Guts, No Glory, No Honor, No Victory, Pillage, Plunder, and 
> Take Heads!|  
> >****************************************************************
> 
> Dave's sig and nom de guerre is taking a beating in today's NYT 
> where there is a story about the US military carefully planning 
> to avoid casualties in warfare.

I find it appalling that the military was prevented from doing what was 
right, ie., defending civilians from tyrants, murderers, and despots.
I fault the politicians for their lack of guts, pride and integrity for 
the delay, allowing atrocities right in front our warriors with their 
hands tied behind their back.  If they were going to commit military 
force, stand back and let them do their job right.  We have allowed 
political cowardice to emasculate our military might.  Personally I found 
myself as a Vietnam Veteran embarrassed when a group of attaches 
(hooligans) turned away a US gunboat.
 
> It also reports that the brave white collars in think tanks 
> think it's a terrible prospect because then no one will believe 
> that the US is tough, and tough minds know that "casualites are 
> inevitable".
> 
> And how will healthy young men and women be taught guts, honor, 
> victory, and so on by periodically turning a bunch of them and 
> their foes into salsa and crispy critters for evening news 
> adulation.

Damn the media and their libertarian, bleeding heart views, if you know 
to do right and fail to do so, evil will grow.  I cannot defend going 
there in the first place, but once sent they were commmited to do right.  
I have a problem with the US being a world policeman, and I also feel 
that the NSA, NRO, FBI, CIA do not have the right to treat every man jack 
of us as criminals by invading our privacy by means of key forfeiture in 
order to catch kiddie pornographers, pedophiles, drug lords, and other 
criminals.  If we all had our guns, encouraged famaily values, developed 
neighborhood block watches, these criminals would have no where to hide 
and the LEA would have no excuse to trample on our rights of privacy.

> But Dave can still show his humorous sig in a VA abattoir of 
> mangled ex-warriors if he really wants to enjoy the sad 
> communion of misled youngsters.

John, I do not fault the misled younsters, but the politicians that use 
the media polls to make US foreign policy, and national security.

BTW John, Harvey means "called to war" or "warrior", all of my male 
progeny were soldiers, policemen, preachers and mercenaries, I can do no 
less than encourage real men to stand tall, be proud, do right, and not 
be cowered by tyrants, foreign or domestic.

Obviously, you keyed on my tagline, but did not address the rights of the
individual of privacy and self protection, and not turning over to big
brother lock, stock and key.  Even animals have the right of self defence
to further self preservation even including deadly force, where does big
brother get off by taking away our guns, treating us as criminals with the
cliche, you have nothing to fear or hide if you have not done anything
wrong.  This presumes I have done wrong already, the LEA are just trying
to treat law abiding citizens as criminals, not to preserve or protect,
but to get evidence by any means without a warrant, sounds like the
British are here again. 

Dave
___
****************************************************************************
|No Guts, No Glory, No Honor, No Victory, Pillage, Plunder, and Take Heads!|
****************************************************************************
| Dave M. Harvey                            PGP 2.61 Public Key available. |
| PO Box 151311              	            Finger warrior@infinet.com.us  |
| Columbus, OH 43215-8311    	            dharvey@freenet.columbus.oh.us |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==

David Harvey writes:
$ Damn the media and their libertarian, bleeding heart views, 

I've never heard a libertarian accused of being a bleeding heart before....

[...]
$ Even animals have the right of self defence
$ to further self preservation even including deadly force, 

Hmmm.  Even against humans ?

-L. McCarthy		 "I'm just a sucker with no self-esteem" -Offspring
Send me mail using "Subject: remailer-help" for an autoreply about Underdog

On Thu, 6 Oct 1994, Lewis McCarthy wrote:

> David Harvey writes:
> $ Damn the media and their libertarian, bleeding heart views, 
> 
> I've never heard a libertarian accused of being a bleeding heart before....

Would you call the media conservative? Not!

> $ Even animals have the right of self defence
> $ to further self preservation even including deadly force, 
> 
> Hmmm.  Even against humans ?

That is the law of nature, in the end it reigns supreme.

> -L. McCarthy		 "I'm just a sucker with no self-esteem" -Offspring
> Send me mail using "Subject: remailer-help" for an autoreply about Underdog
> 

___
****************************************************************************
|No Guts, No Glory, No Honor, No Victory, Pillage, Plunder, and Take Heads!|
****************************************************************************
| Dave M. Harvey                            PGP 2.61 Public Key available. |
| PO Box 151311              	            Finger warrior@infinet.com.us  |
| Columbus, OH 43215-8311    	            dharvey@freenet.columbus.oh.us |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==

Dave Harvey writes:
> > $ Damn the media and their libertarian, bleeding heart views, 
> > I've never heard a libertarian accused of being a bleeding heart before....
$ Would you call the media conservative? Not!

You would call libertarians non-conservative ?

> > $ Even animals have the right of self defence [...] including deadly force
> > Even against humans ?
$ That is the law of nature, in the end it reigns supreme.

Are humans natural things ?  I think so.

Are all acts of natural things themselves natural ?

If so, aren't all human actions natural, making the label tautological and
therefore worthless for judging the deeds of humanity ?

If not, how do you make the distinction between human actions which are
"natural" and actions which aren't ?  How do you decide which deeds are
part of "the law of nature" and which aren't ?

-L. McCarthy					Question Anarchy !  :)

From: Lewis McCarthy <lmccarth@bali.cs.umass.edu>
   Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:51:35 -0400 (EDT)

   $ Even animals have the right of self defence
   $ to further self preservation even including deadly force, 

   Hmmm.  Even against humans ?

I support the right to arm bears.  (Sorry... but this *is* getting silly).

-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

David M. Harvey, I writes:
 > Damn the media and their libertarian, bleeding heart views...

Would that be the extreme righto-leftist media?

| GOOD TIME FOR MOVIE - GOING ||| Mike McNally <m5@tivoli.com>       |
| TAKE TWA TO CAIRO.          ||| Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX:        |
|     (actual fortune cookie) ||| "Like A Little Bit of Semi-Heaven" |

On Thu, 6 Oct 1994, Mike McNally wrote:

> David M. Harvey, I writes:
>  > Damn the media and their libertarian, bleeding heart views...
> 
> Would that be the extreme righto-leftist media?
> 
> | GOOD TIME FOR MOVIE - GOING ||| Mike McNally <m5@tivoli.com>       |
> | TAKE TWA TO CAIRO.          ||| Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX:        |
> |     (actual fortune cookie) ||| "Like A Little Bit of Semi-Heaven" |

Actually Mike, I am apolitical, however to sensationalize a story for 
profit, ie, OJ Simpson, is wrong before the trail occurs.  It not only 
changes the course of justice and history, but also impairs the public's 
views and objectivity, and the right to trail by a jury of unbiased peers.
The media are not interested in the truth just profits and sensationalism.

What is rightist-leftist media?

Dave
___
****************************************************************************
|No Guts, No Glory, No Honor, No Victory, Pillage, Plunder, and Take Heads!|
****************************************************************************
| Dave M. Harvey                            PGP 2.61 Public Key available. |
| PO Box 151311              	            Finger warrior@infinet.com.us  |
| Columbus, OH 43215-8311    	            dharvey@freenet.columbus.oh.us |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==