Oceania?

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I had come across a reference to this in Tim's CYPHERNOMICON.

Was this whole project a giant scam?  Has this been objectively
demonstrated, or just suspected/believed?

Having read the new URL this group has placed onto the Web (don't have
it handy or I'd post it), it seems that the project is still alive and
well, and "trying to pay off old debts."

Could someone bring me up to speed on this group?  On the surface, it 
would seem that there is a lot in common with their objectives and the
general Cypherpunks "philosophy". (quotes because I understand the 
diversity of thought in this group.)

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Johnathan Corgan       "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent"
jcorgan@netcom.com                       -Isaac Asimov
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Or send email to:      pgp-public-keys@pgp.ai.mit.edu Subj: GET jcorgan
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Johnathan Corgan wrote:

> I had come across a reference to this in Tim's CYPHERNOMICON.
> 
> Was this whole project a giant scam?  Has this been objectively
> demonstrated, or just suspected/believed?
...
> Could someone bring me up to speed on this group?  On the surface, it 
> would seem that there is a lot in common with their objectives and the
> general Cypherpunks "philosophy". (quotes because I understand the 
> diversity of thought in this group.)

I won't say it's a scam, but a lot of people think it is/was. I
thought it had died some months back, when all posts (of which there
had previously been many) suddnly stopped. 

The idea of soliciting "contributions" to fund some kind of seagoing
barge, sinkable with a single torpedo (anonymous delivered, easily
enough), is crazy. 

If changes are going to occur, it won't be by collecting dribs and
drabs of small change from suckers who think they'll someday be
"living off the sea, consulting via satellite dish." (That's not a
direct quote, just my gleaning of the Oceania philosophy.)

They're out to lunch, or scam artists, or hopeless dreamers, or all of
the above. Gone to Roatan.

--Tim May


-- 
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I thought it was 'gone to croatoa'.

josh

Timothy C. May wrote:

> They're out to lunch, or scam artists, or hopeless dreamers, or all of
> the above. Gone to Roatan.


Charging $250 for an Oceania passport supports the scam theory.

Mats

Mats Bergstrom writes:
 > Timothy C. May wrote:
 > 
 > > They're out to lunch, or scam artists, or hopeless dreamers, or all of
 > > the above. Gone to Roatan.
 > 
 > Charging $250 for an Oceania passport supports the scam theory.

Then again, it may just belong in the "highly speculative" category.
Much like the rich market now existing in Cuban property -- tied, of
course, to a particular group that promises to overthrow Castro, then
declare the property yours once the dictatorship is in place.

Of course, for the price of Oceania, you could put together a nice
"offshore" communications satellite.

nathan

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I used to be on the Oceania mailing list.  From what I can tell,
these guys are serious.  I must admit, I was taken with the idea.
Trade a few pairs of Levis for a Soviet warship and live in
international waters.  This design would have taken one or two
torpedoes.  About the time I left, they were thinking of floating
concrete domes in the Sargasso sea.


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Johnathan Corgan writes
> Was this whole project a giant scam?  Has this been objectively
> demonstrated, or just suspected/believed?

Some of the participants were less than truthfull, to me
and to others.

Was it a scam?   In some cases they no doubt believed that
it was all for the greater good.  In other cases -- if some
people made money out of it, then it was a scam.  If it was
not a scam, then still they pursued their goal by evil
means.   I doubt that anyone made money out of it.

Either way they are untrustworthy people.

Myself, I would rather be stabbed in front than
behind.

The man who loudly says he is your friend, and loudly
points to common enemies, is seldom your friend.

The Oceania project will not succeed, though I wish
it well.

There is an alternative project that might succeed, perhaps
is already succeeding:

Many governments now recognize that they are incapable of
governing in a fashion that permits a modern technological
society.  So they are leasing -- not selling, but long
term leases -- regions to be governed by more competent
third parties.  Singapore is a major beneficiary of this.

They find government by Singapore particularly comforting
because Singapore has demonstrated expertise in minimizing
the dangerous infection of freedom that accompanies
capitalism.

But I am happy to report the disease seems difficult to contain.

Those free trade zones and special economic zones that are most
successful, are those that are most thoroughly free.




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