Lance Rose writes anti-cryptoanarchy in WIRED

I've missed recent traffic so forgive me if this has already come up.

Lance Rose writes a particularly twisted piece in the Idees Fortes section of
WIRED 3.02 (February). His basic premise is that tradritional forms of 
copyright law are sufficient to ensure that the Net poses only limited 
problems to mass content producers such as Time Warner. I agree with this,
as most people feel uncomfortable about 'stealing' however impossible it is
to detect. Lance Rose, though, goes on to insist that the reason for the
copyright law's strength will be the power of the omnipresent Net Cops (sic).
So that you don't consider him entirely ignorant, he acknowledges the 
increasing use of anon remailers. However, he adds (repeatedly), "Can't
we all use anonymous remailers to keep the Net knee-deep in infringing copies?
Nope. Net cops can swiftly clean each new infringement out of the major online
markets as soon as it appears." 

How will they do this so efficiently? By "deploying software agents" net-wide
to "search out anonymous infringements." He later admits the possibility of
"friend-to-friend" markets, but rejects the possibility of such markets growing
out of hand, as "few or none of the participants will know everyone else in the
circle" allowing cops to join them undetected (as if the Information Liberation
Front would mind giving the _cops_ pirated software). "A symbolic legal attack"
every once in a while will scare would-be black-marketeers.

Later, he does discuss the hidden costs of acquiring pirated versus genuine 
stuff - "the time and effort needed to track down pirate dealers [...] 
who are so deep underground even the cops can't find them."

Sheesh. And here we are, post-BlackNet, discussing untraceable paid-for
anon-remailers (which exist today on Sameer's c2.org blind server) and
data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not
given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would
be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter. 

OTOH maybe ignorance, for LEA-friendly legislators who read WIRED, is bliss?
Let the sleeping dog lie, etc, just finish your data haven code ;-]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rishab Aiyer Ghosh                                "In between the breaths is
rishab@dxm.ernet.in                                  the space where we live"
rishab@arbornet.org                                        - Lawrence Durrell
Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410  
Voicemail +91 11 3760335                 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA

rishab@dxm.ernet.in wrote:

> Sheesh. And here we are, post-BlackNet, discussing untraceable paid-for
> anon-remailers (which exist today on Sameer's c2.org blind server) and
> data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not
> given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would
> be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter. 

First, I want to know how Rishab, in India, gets "Wired" so early (or
why I, right next to Silicon Valley, get it so late). He's mentioned
the February issue twice now, and all I have is the January "White
Album."

Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
(?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of
jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company
(whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've
expected to, subjunctively speaking).

In any case, there a zillion odd opinions on the Net of a Million
Lies. Most of them will vanish without a trace. That's comforting.

--Tim May

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
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                       | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
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tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes:

> > data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not
> > given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would
> > be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter. 
> 
> First, I want to know how Rishab, in India, gets "Wired" so early (or
> why I, right next to Silicon Valley, get it so late). He's mentioned

I used to get it three months late, as TNT was doing something really weird
to WIRED. I screamed. So they send it express hot off the press, which has
worked for two issues so far.

> Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
> (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of

No, I don't think he's a lawyer, but he wrote SysLaw which is widely hyped
as _the_ law book for BBS sysops. It's actually not that good - the EFF
recommends another one the name of which I've forgotten. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rishab Aiyer Ghosh                                "In between the breaths is
rishab@dxm.ernet.in                                  the space where we live"
rishab@arbornet.org                                        - Lawrence Durrell
Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410  
Voicemail +91 11 3760335                 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA

Rishab Aiyer Ghosh writes:
 > > Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
 > 
 > No, I don't think he's a lawyer, but he wrote SysLaw which is widely hyped
 > as _the_ law book for BBS sysops. It's actually not that good - the EFF
 > recommends another one the name of which I've forgotten. 

I just picked up a copy of "Cyberspace and the Law" -- when I'm
through with it, I'll post a review. It looks to be a nice, broad
survey, but it looks suspiciously thin for a book on law :-)

While I'm posting, have I missed any good rants from folks who've had
a crack at the DigiCash beta test? I had a few criticisms of the end
result, but I'd rather not introduce further redundancy.

nathan

Timothy C. May says:
> Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
> (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of
> jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company
> (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've
> expected to, subjunctively speaking).

Don't confuse Len Rose and Lance Rose.

One is indeed a lawyer -- in fact, he's my lawyer.

Perry

Who notes that he's not the only person shooting from the hip these
days.

Tim wrote:

| rishab@dxm.ernet.in wrote:
| 
| > Sheesh. And here we are, post-BlackNet, discussing untraceable paid-for
| > anon-remailers (which exist today on Sameer's c2.org blind server) and
| > data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not
| > given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would
| > be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter. 
| 
| First, I want to know how Rishab, in India, gets "Wired" so early (or
| why I, right next to Silicon Valley, get it so late). He's mentioned
| the February issue twice now, and all I have is the January "White
| Album."

	He doesn't have to contend with the USPS?   (My copy arrived
today, quite beat up, and missing most of its white envelope.  Sigh.)

| Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
| (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of

	You're thinking of Len Rose, not Lance Rose.  (Assuming this
is the L. Rose who features in The Hacker Crackdown.)


	Regarding Rishab's points about the article, I think its a
useful fantasy.  Let Lance think that net.cops will win, until the
reality proves otherwise.  At least he doesn't call for banning
remailers.


Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
						       -Hume

Timothy C. May wrote:

> Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
> (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of
> jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company
> (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've
> expected to, subjunctively speaking).

Josh Geller reminded me that it may've been Len Rose I was thinking
of. Len, Lance, I don't know.

--Tim May


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
                       | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.
Cypherpunks list: majordomo@toad.com with body message of only: 
subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tc/tcmay

Lance Rose is a good guy... IMHO..

1) I use his legal services

2) I haven't read the article but it seems reasonable esp. if 
   we don't have NON-Escrowed encyptions...

   e.g., if clipper wins I think Lance is probally correct...

3) he can be reached at 72230.2044@compuserve.com

...
> Album."
> 
> Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
> (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of
> jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company
> (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've
> expected to, subjunctively speaking).

Bzzzt....  You're error correction is working overtime...

That's Len Rose, formerly with Pagesat, currently with barrnet.
His offense, BTW, was basically giving the source to ATT login.c
to a college kid...  Documented somewhat poorly in 'The Hacker Crackdown',
Bruce Sterling.

> In any case, there a zillion odd opinions on the Net of a Million
> Lies. Most of them will vanish without a trace. That's comforting.
> 
> --Tim May

Now, my name is one that really should cause collisions...

sdw
-- 
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Senior Consultant    513-865-9599 FAX/LIG   513.496.5223 OH Page BA Aug94-Feb95
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Stephen D. Williams wrote:

> Bzzzt....  You're error correction is working overtime...
> 
> That's Len Rose, formerly with Pagesat, currently with barrnet.
> His offense, BTW, was basically giving the source to ATT login.c
> to a college kid...  Documented somewhat poorly in 'The Hacker Crackdown',
> Bruce Sterling.

Enough already! This is the seventh or eighth such correction that's
been sent to me, some of them also sent to the list.

I understand that errors get picked up promptly by all you eagle-eyes,
but enough already.

Thanks,

--Tim May