NODE 729197b6Warning letter from Co$. [any comments ?]
nobody@replay.com (Name withheld on request)Wed, 4 Jan 95 08:00:03 PST
January 3, 1995
TO: INTERNET REMAILER OPERATORS
FROM: THOMAS M. SMALL
COUNSEL FOR RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER AND BRIDGE
PUBLICATIONS, INC.
I represent Religious Technology Center ("RTC"), which
owns the unpublished, confidential Advanced Technology of the
religion of Scientology, and holds exclusive rights under the
copyrights applicable to the Advanced Technology materials.
I also represent Bridge Publications, Inc., which holds the
exclusive right to print, publish and sell various
non-confidential works by the founder of the Scientology
religion, L. Ron Hubbard, and to make and publish
compilations and derivative works of and from those works and
to enforce all rights in them.
It has come to my attention that there are two
alternate newsgroups on the Internet to which individuals
have been annonymously posting certain of my clients'
published and unpublished copyrighted materials, including
certain of the confidential Advanced Technology materials.
These confidential materials being posted were stolen from
my client. There is reason to believe that the materials
which are uploaded by these users may also be downloaded by
other users, and that these activities may be occurring
through the systems which are linked into the Internet.
The two newsgroups into which these materials are being
copied are alt.technology.clearing and alt.religion.
Scientology.
We request your assistance in dealing with the problem.
The spread of infringements and misappropriations by the
users will be lessened if you lock out from your systems the
two newsgroups involved, alt.religion.scientology and
alt.technology.clearing, limiting the potential for reposting
and downloading. It will then be easier to deal with the
intentional infringers through appropriate channels.
Both the uploading and downloading of these materials
constitute unauthorized copying and distribution of the
materials in violation of our clients' rights under United
States copyright laws and the law of other countries, where
applicable. Damages and an injunction against further
unauthorized copying and distribution may be obtained against
infringers and, all unauthorized copies and all materials and
equipment by which the unauthorized copies may be reproduced
can be impounded. Unauthorized disclosure of the
confidential Advanced Technology materials also violates
applicable trade secrets laws.
Action is being taken directly with the systems users
who we know are primarily responsible for these violations of
my clients' rights. We hope those actions will put an end to
the infringements by these users. We do {not} wish to
involve others in litigation. Unfortunately, however, such
actions will be unavoidable where there is contributory
infringement by those who knowingly induce or contribute to
the infringing conduct of these users by providing facilities
or systems that enable the direct infringers to infringe,
because we legally must take all actions to protect our
clients' property rights. Courts are holding such
contributory infringers liable. Two examples are: Sega
Enterprises Ltd. v. Maphia BBS, 30 U.S.P.Q. 2d 1921 (N.D.
Cal. 1994) and Playboy Enterprises v. Frena, 839 F. Supp.
1152 (M.D. Fla. 1993).
Recent proposed legislation regarding potential
liability of systems operators and others who provide
facilities or services, such as annonymous remailers, for
information passing through their systems has understandably
created concern on the part of systems operators as a
potential liability. We ask your voluntary assistance in
dealing with these known wilful infringers so that we can
both deal with the problem without legal hassles, and legal
liability can be confined to those who intend to create the
situation.
We ask that you confirm that you have blocked access to
these newsgroups through your remailer. If you are unwilling
to do so, we ask that you inform us as to the reasons for
your position.
Sincerely,
Thomas M. Small
NODE cbd890fcRe: Warning letter from Co$. [any comments ?]
Jim Gillogly <jim@rand.org>Wed, 4 Jan 95 11:08:49 PST
> nobody@replay.com (Name withheld on request) writes:
> FROM: THOMAS M. SMALL
> COUNSEL FOR RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER AND BRIDGE
> PUBLICATIONS, INC.
While the issue is interesting (using anonymous mailers to violate
copyrights or to expose scams, depending on your view of the content),
the apparent aim of the Scientologists isn't met by approaching the
cypherpunk remailers: the specific anonymous postings have been through
penet so far, I think.
> Recent proposed legislation regarding potential
> liability of systems operators and others who provide
> facilities or services, such as annonymous remailers, for
> information passing through their systems has understanda> bly
> created concern on the part of systems operators as a
> potential liability. We ask your voluntary assistance in
You missplet "anonymous". Hope this helps.
The only "proposed legislation" I know of was proposed by Martha Siegel,
the greencard guru from CyberHell. Any others?
> We ask that you confirm that you have blocked access to
> these newsgroups through your remailer. If you are unwilling
> to do so, we ask that you inform us as to the reasons for
> your position.
Yeah, right. People unclear on the concept of anonymous remailers.
Maybe they should be talking to the mail-to-news forwarders instead.
Jim Gillogly
Highday, 13 Afteryule S.R. 1995, 19:06
NODE c653fbddRe: Warning letter from Co$. [any comments ?]
Avi Harris Baumstein <avi@clas.ufl.edu>Wed, 4 Jan 95 12:46:33 PST
nobody writes a very nice, non-confrontational and well thought out
letter supporting his case (and ignoring the oddness of copyrighting
religous materials). but i have some questions that weren't discussed
when i took business law 101 a few years ago:
nobody@replay.com (Name withheld on request) writes:
> applicable. Damages and an injunction against further
> unauthorized copying and distribution may be obtained against
> infringers and, all unauthorized copies and all materials and
> equipment by which the unauthorized copies may be reproduced
> can be impounded. Unauthorized disclosure of the
> confidential Advanced Technology materials also violates
> applicable trade secrets laws.
i know there has been much chatter on this subject, but are there
truly any precedents that could hold on the anonymous distribution of
copyrighted material? are remailer-ops truly in legal danger? what
exactly constitutes a trade secret, and what sort of laws apply?
> clients' property rights. Courts are holding such
> contributory infringers liable. Two examples are: Sega
> Enterprises Ltd. v. Maphia BBS, 30 U.S.P.Q. 2d 1921 (N.D.
> Cal. 1994) and Playboy Enterprises v. Frena, 839 F. Supp.
> 1152 (M.D. Fla. 1993).
what of these cases? is this just an example of typical lawyerly
intimidation tactics? how do you remailer-ops plan to react? my first
instinct (were i running a remailer) would be to ignore it, on grounds
that i wouldn't examine any mail passing through. but if there really
were valid precedent in this matter... (has anyone seen any
well-written lay-person evaluations of the steve jackson case? i read
the ruling, but much of it went in one eye and out the other).
i think the censorship thing is building steam, and we should start
preparing (and informing) ourselves...
-avi
NODE 964f1c7cRe: Warning letter from Co$. [any comments ?]
eric@remailer.net (Eric Hughes)Thu, 5 Jan 95 00:02:06 PST
From: Avi Harris Baumstein <avi@clas.ufl.edu>
i know there has been much chatter on this subject, but are there
truly any precedents that could hold on the anonymous distribution of
copyrighted material?
Cubby v. Compuserve is relevant here, as well as that bookstore case
in the 50's that I never remember the name of. Mike G., can you help
me out on this one?
These cases are about other kinds of wrongs (libel in one and
obscenity (?) in the other), but copyright violation doesn't seem to
be have any particular features to set it apart from the basic
principle of these. Namely, if you know, you're responsible; if you
don't, you're not. This, you all realize no doubt, is a gross
simplification of a long chain of reasoning.
what
exactly constitutes a trade secret, and what sort of laws apply?
The short answer is that if you didn't sign a trade secret agreement
or are party to one by some other relationship (such as agency), then
a trade secret that comes your way is no secret any more.
> clients' property rights. Courts are holding such
> contributory infringers liable. Two examples are: Sega
> Enterprises Ltd. v. Maphia BBS, 30 U.S.P.Q. 2d 1921 (N.D.
> Cal. 1994) and Playboy Enterprises v. Frena, 839 F. Supp.
> 1152 (M.D. Fla. 1993).
what of these cases? is this just an example of typical lawyerly
intimidation tactics?
I have personal experience with the first case. It was a local BBS
run by a friend of a friend, and I got involved a year ago right after
the seizure. (It was, BTW, a _civil_ seizure of a BBS, not criminal.)
I believe the case settled out of court. There were court documents
approving the seizure however; I don't know if these set precedent or
not. I suspect not, because the action was entirely _ex parte_ (Latin
for one-sided). Mike, again? Other legal folk?
I know nothing about the second one.
nhow do you remailer-ops plan to react? my first
instinct (were i running a remailer) would be to ignore it, on grounds
that i wouldn't examine any mail passing through.
The people who keep logs, yes, are in more danger than those who don't.
Eric
NODE 8285170fRe: Warning letter from Co$. [any comments ?]
Mike Godwin <mnemonic@eff.org>Thu, 5 Jan 95 13:27:04 PST
Actually, civil copyright infringement liability doesn't turn on
knowledge. You can be an infringer even if you don't know.
Criminal copyright infringement requires a guilty mental state, so *that*
you have to know.
> From: Avi Harris Baumstein <avi@clas.ufl.edu>
>
> i know there has been much chatter on this subject, but are there
> truly any precedents that could hold on the anonymous distribution of
> copyrighted material?
>
> Cubby v. Compuserve is relevant here, as well as that bookstore case
> in the 50's that I never remember the name of. Mike G., can you help
> me out on this one?
>
> These cases are about other kinds of wrongs (libel in one and
> obscenity (?) in the other), but copyright violation doesn't seem to
> be have any particular features to set it apart from the basic
> principle of these. Namely, if you know, you're responsible; if you
> don't, you're not. This, you all realize no doubt, is a gross
> simplification of a long chain of reasoning.
>
> what
> exactly constitutes a trade secret, and what sort of laws apply?
>
> The short answer is that if you didn't sign a trade secret agreement
> or are party to one by some other relationship (such as agency), then
> a trade secret that comes your way is no secret any more.
>
> > clients' property rights. Courts are holding such
> > contributory infringers liable. Two examples are: Sega
> > Enterprises Ltd. v. Maphia BBS, 30 U.S.P.Q. 2d 1921 (N.D.
> > Cal. 1994) and Playboy Enterprises v. Frena, 839 F. Supp.
> > 1152 (M.D. Fla. 1993).
>
> what of these cases? is this just an example of typical lawyerly
> intimidation tactics?
>
> I have personal experience with the first case. It was a local BBS
> run by a friend of a friend, and I got involved a year ago right after
> the seizure. (It was, BTW, a _civil_ seizure of a BBS, not criminal.)
> I believe the case settled out of court. There were court documents
> approving the seizure however; I don't know if these set precedent or
> not. I suspect not, because the action was entirely _ex parte_ (Latin
> for one-sided). Mike, again? Other legal folk?
>
> I know nothing about the second one.
>
> nhow do you remailer-ops plan to react? my first
> instinct (were i running a remailer) would be to ignore it, on grounds
> that i wouldn't examine any mail passing through.
>
> The people who keep logs, yes, are in more danger than those who don't.
>
> Eric
>
NODE deabef70regards to legal attempt to stifle remailers
Nesta Stubbs <nesta@nesta.pr.mcs.net>Wed, 4 Jan 95 13:22:59 PST
After reading the post from teh Scientologists about lockout out groups
form anon-remailers, I was thining a little bit, note I said a little bit
this isnt a fully fleshed out idea yet. I was thinking it may be smart
for osme of the remailers to lock out the groups, in particular those
operators who do it forma student acount, or perhaps from their own
account in teh United states where legal action would be able to reach
them. But to get around this, the anon users can use the Finland server,
or a new and imporoved anon-remailer. By shopping around for ISPs it is
possible to find a provider who takes payment thru mail and doesnt
require positive ID to set up an account. With this you then either run
that account as the remailer, a totally anon account not linked to your
person and thus immune from legal actions(besies having it closed by the
ISP if they are pressured) or you can run a SLIP connection and runa
remailer much like Julf's on your own machien thru a dedicated SLIP line.
i want to know everything http://www.mcs.com/~nesta/home.html
i want to be everywhere Nesta's Home Page
i want to fuck everyone in the world &
i want to do something that matters /-/ a s t e zine