who?

does anybody know what the email address is for the good samaritans?

tia

 ps, how come mail i send to jpiunix.com is getting bounced, are they down?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:10:45 -0800, anonymous-remailer@shell.portal.com wrote:

>  ps, how come mail i send to jpiunix.com is getting bounced, are they down?

Regrettably, it appears jpunix.com is down permanently.  I can't fault John
at all, and want to thank him for running a robust remailer for as long as
he was able.  I captured this earlier today:
=============================================================================
From: perry@jpunix.com (John A. Perry)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.anonymous
Subject: Re: Jpunix "unknown"?
Date: 4 Jan 1995 06:55:22 -0600
Organization: J. P. and Associates

In article <doumakesD1v7EA.C63@netcom.com>,
Don Doumakes <doumakes@netcom.com> wrote:
>I've gotten several pieces of mail returned from jpunix.  Is it down
>permanently, or is this just a temporary problem?

Here is the test of a message I sent to remailer-operators:

The anonymous remailer at jpunix.com is going to shut down 
permanently shortly after I send this message. I spent my holidays 
fighting spams, running out of disk space because of spams and people 
sending HUGE binaries, and running out of swap space.

I have come to the ultimate conclusion that the Internet is not
mature or developed enough for remailers. The intended purpose has been
completely ignored while abuse is growing almost geometrically on a daily
basis. I have concluded that running a remailer on the Internet is like
giving a bunch of terrorists a nuclear bomb and then telling them "But
only use it for good!". There just doesn't seem to be much point in
thrashing my disks and computer to aid somebody in net abuse. I hardly
ever (never) see any use of the remailer for the purposes it was intended. 

BTW as I type this, mailgate.mail.aol.com is hammering my port 25 every 
30 seconds. The contents of the spam being passed thru my system 
essentially says:

          THIS IS A MAIL BOMB!!
          **** BOOM ***
=============================================================================

Alan Westrope                  <awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu>
__________/|-,                 <adwestro@ouray.denver.colorado.edu>
   (_)    \|-'                  2.6.2 public key: finger / servers
PGP 0xB8359639:  D6 89 74 03 77 C8 2D 43   7C CA 6D 57 29 25 69 23

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The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many
other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of
the commons. 

Even a negligible fee would do much to prevent gross remailer
abuse. It may not be feasible to make remailers in to an
industry, but this isn't the point -- it will keep the utterly
lame from using it for pranks and their ilk.

> The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many
> other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of
> the commons. 

    See the remailer at c2.org as an example - quite nice, and has a 
pay-for-more than n bandwidth agreement.  Works fine for a few small 
chatty messages, won't work worth a damn for spamming.

-jon

( --------[ Jonathan D. Cooper ]--------[ entropy@intnet.net ]-------- )
( PGP 2.6.2 keyprint: 31 50 8F 82 B9 79 ED C4  5B 12 A0 35 E0 9B C0 01 )
( home page: http://taz.hyperreal.com/~entropy/ ]---[ Key-ID: 4082CCB5 )

>     See the remailer at c2.org as an example - quite nice, and has a 
> pay-for-more than n bandwidth agreement.  Works fine for a few small 
> chatty messages, won't work worth a damn for spamming.
> 

I like both this idea and this particular service. I didn't mean to
imply that nobody was charging/reducing spam.

From: db@Tadpole.COM (Doug Barnes)
   Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:38:21 -0600 (CST)
   Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com

   The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many
   other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of
   the commons. 

   Even a negligible fee would do much to prevent gross remailer
   abuse. It may not be feasible to make remailers in to an
   industry, but this isn't the point -- it will keep the utterly
   lame from using it for pranks and their ilk.

Use First Virtual.  The "information" that you sell is a one-time
email alias that points to your remailer.  After an hour, that email
alias gets disabled.  This dynamic setup is easy to do with smail,
just a matter of dropping a file into a directory.

And who cares if they pay you or not, because if they don't pay
(choose to purchase the information), eventually FV will cancel their
account.

Send mail to info@fv.com.  This gets you an automated response.

Their contract says that they won't enforce payment on services, so if
you offer a service, you're completely at risk, but again, there's not
much real risk here...

-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | What part of "Congress shall make no law" eludes Congress?

>    The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many
>    other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of
>    the commons. 
> 
>    Even a negligible fee would do much to prevent gross remailer
>    abuse. It may not be feasible to make remailers in to an
>    industry, but this isn't the point -- it will keep the utterly
>    lame from using it for pranks and their ilk.
> 
> Use First Virtual.  The "information" that you sell is a one-time
> email alias that points to your remailer.  After an hour, that email
> alias gets disabled.  This dynamic setup is easy to do with smail,
> just a matter of dropping a file into a directory.

Heh. An anonymous remailer paid for by credit card... there'd
have to be an additional level of indirection for it to work,
which would make the methods for tracking those who don't pay
quite problematic.

Also, most remailer abuse tends to be of the hit-and-run variety,
which is still nicely enabled by FV.

Anonymous remailers pretty much require anonymous digital cash,
although this could be built on top of some other electronic
payment system with somewhat less payment lag and reversability 
than FV.

Doug

From: db@Tadpole.COM (Doug Barnes)
   Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:11:11 -0600 (CST)

   Heh. An anonymous remailer paid for by credit card... there'd
   have to be an additional level of indirection for it to work,
   which would make the methods for tracking those who don't pay
   quite problematic.

Why wouldn't it work?  I plan on doing this, and I'll be selling lots
of things besides a remailer, including lots of email traffic.  So
there won't be any effective way to find out who paid for access to my
remailer.

Sure, I'll know who used it, but I'm not going to keep that
information.  (Yes, yes, FV says that I have to keep records of who
bought what, but I'll label all my information with a random number,
that simply says that X bought information worth Y, not *what*
information.)  And if you don't trust a remailer operator, then you
won't use it.

-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | What part of "Congress shall make no law" eludes Congress?

On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Russell Nelson wrote:

>    From: db@Tadpole.COM (Doug Barnes)
>    Heh. An anonymous remailer paid for by credit card... there'd
>    have to be an additional level of indirection for it to work,
>    which would make the methods for tracking those who don't pay
>    quite problematic.

> Why wouldn't it work?  I plan on doing this, and I'll be selling lots
> of things besides a remailer, including lots of email traffic.  So
> there won't be any effective way to find out who paid for access to my
> remailer.

Another thought:  why couldn't you sell a book of "stamps" -- Magic Money 
tokens -- and get paid for them using First Virtual?  This would get 
around two problems:  the lack of anonymity using First Virtual, and the 
fairly high 29-cent-per-transaction fee.  You could sell a book of twenty 
remailer stamps for a dollar, or something.  I'd buy.

And it wouldn't make it too easy for people to use remailers without 
paying.  FV will still take an account away from someone who denies 
legitimate charges too many times.

I guess there is the problem of Chaum's patents (and RSA's).  Is there 
anyplace where neither set of patents is valid, or where they'd be 
practically unenforceable?

Joe

> Anonymous remailers pretty much require anonymous digital cash,
> although this could be built on top of some other electronic
> payment system with somewhat less payment lag and reversability 
> than FV.

   Perhaps if the people at DigiCash had seen fit to give me the beta 
client and server software I could attempt to implement such a beast.  
Unfortunately, I don't meet their critera.

-jon

( --------[ Jonathan D. Cooper ]--------[ entropy@intnet.net ]-------- )
( PGP 2.6.2 keyprint: 31 50 8F 82 B9 79 ED C4  5B 12 A0 35 E0 9B C0 01 )
( home page: http://taz.hyperreal.com/~entropy/ ]---[ Key-ID: 4082CCB5 )