Ivy Bells, Smersh, and the Rosenbergs

At 9:16 AM 7/31/95, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 12:52 AM 7/31/95 -0700, rick hoselton wrote:
>>
>>>Different cases - the Walkers gave away information on how the Yankees were
>>>stealing Russian secrets, which the Russians patched up by encrypting.
>>
>>Really?  Do you have a reference for this?  I am interested.
>No refs, this is just memory of the news.  There was an undersea cable
>north of Siberia somewhere that carried a lot of unencrypted military
>traffic, which US Submarines were eavesdropping on.  I think Walker was
>the one who leaked it, and they started encrypting.  Refs on the Walkers
>should be easy to find in the library; there were a couple of books.

There were at least 3 books, plus at least one t.v. miniseries, plus
extensive media coverage. Until the Aldrich Ames case, this was about the
most serious spying case in modern times. (It may or may not have been
bigger than Ames, depending on the relative importance of "technical means"
vs. "humint.")

The undersea cable eavesdropping program was "Ivy Bells," and was revealed
to the Sovs by Walker and his associates. I don't know if they also knew
about via alternate sources.

On the other issue, whether either or both of the Rosenbergs were spies,
things have settled yet. Sudoplatov, in "Special Tasks," claims they were
both spies. Others doubt it.

(For you Bond fans, Sudoplatov headed up "Smersh." Russian for "Death to
spies." Yes, it really existed, unlike, say "U.N.C.L.E.")

On the issue of whether in the 1950s the U.S. government knew the
Rosenbergs were spies, we have even less information. A trial was held and
guilty verdict returned, but reasonable folks may disagree. My guess? Yes,
they were probably spies.

The Rosenbergs were certainly the Mumia Abu Jamals of their day.

--Tim May

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On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Timothy C. May wrote:

> On the other issue, whether either or both of the Rosenbergs were spies,
> things have settled yet. Sudoplatov, in "Special Tasks," claims they were
> both spies. Others doubt it.
> 
> (For you Bond fans, Sudoplatov headed up "Smersh." Russian for "Death to
> spies." Yes, it really existed, unlike, say "U.N.C.L.E.")
> 
> On the issue of whether in the 1950s the U.S. government knew the
> Rosenbergs were spies, we have even less information. A trial was held and
> guilty verdict returned, but reasonable folks may disagree. My guess? Yes,
> they were probably spies.

Hmm... the stuff that was from the "one-time pads" that were recently 
decrypted says it was fairly certain they were.  So says Kahn. :)

I'm not convinced that there was enough public information available for 
a reasonable conviction back in the 50's, but there seems to be now.

> The Rosenbergs were certainly the Mumia Abu Jamals of their day.

The Mumia case (something friends of mine are more than peripherally 
acquainted with) seems to be very much in doubt.  Of course, they'll kill 
him anyway, probably.  But I suggest reading E.L. Doctrow's essay on the 
subject from the NYT of several weeks (months? possibly) back.

Jon
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