Re: PRZ encrypted voice software release imminent

Of course, if it was a substantial improvement over the
other "Internet Phone" stuff that's out there, and had
a good way of dealing with switching, etc., then people
would use it to make "free" l.d. phone calls on the net,
and the cryptography would get a free ride.

Generally, you are right in suggesting that anything that
requires people to crawl behind their computers, attach
new cables, purchase and debug a sound card under Windows,
and generally engage in techno-weenie hardware manipulations
will have less appeal than something plug and play. Even
given the extremely user-hostile elements of PGP the software,
I would be surprised if PGPFone became as popular.

D.B.:
>Generally, you are right in suggesting that anything that
>requires people to crawl behind their computers, attach
>new cables, purchase and debug a sound card under Windows,
>and generally engage in techno-weenie hardware manipulations
>will have less appeal than something plug and play.

hey, how about this: remember all the plans for "blue boxes"
etc. that got circulated all over the place during the 70's?
I propose creating the schematics for a "Purple box". the
box would have, dangling, those little rubber cups that can fit over
phone receivers, like on the modems.

it would be called the "purple box" because I have not heard
of any other devices called "purple boxes" (i.e. this string
in the "colorful" hacker namespace does not seem to be used up yet)
and also the famous WWII compromised japanese diplomatic codes 
were called Purple.

the way it would work is that both the caller and callee would
have to agree to use the purple box. they would say "purple"
over the phone after they called up and then both hook up their
little gizmos.

the neat thing about this is that if it catches on, people
would end up buying and selling them and improving them.

actually, as I recall a long time ago someone proposed on this
list doing something very similar except using the devices
as a kind of "kids toy" that would introduce children to
encryption. it would allow them to talk through the device
like a bullhorn, and the receiver would hear gobbledygook
unless they had a decoder next to their ear. now I am
serious, this could be a *really* fun toy for kids. you know
how they love to keep secrets and play around with the idea
of communicating among their friends amidst their enemies.
someone who has an entrepreneurial nose, I bet you could
create a *hot*fad* out of this, and sell perhaps a fraction
as fast as Pogs!!! (you'd be a zillionaire at even 1% the
penetration!!!)

one of the problems is that serious crypto chips are pretty
expensive. but an analog scrambler would actually be a decent
start on all this, and I bet it could be built pretty cheaply.

I volunteer to find a place to *archive* (webify) any of the plans that
people write up and successfully test, including GIFs or whatever.



~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
\  / ~/ |\| | | |> |  : : : : : : Vladimir Z. Nuri : : : : <vznuri@netcom.com>
 \/ ./_.| | \_/ |\ | : : : : : : ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/vz/vznuri/home.html

> it would be called the "purple box" because I have not heard
> of any other devices called "purple boxes" (i.e. this string
> in the "colorful" hacker namespace does not seem to be used up yet)
> and also the famous WWII compromised japanese diplomatic codes 
> were called Purple.
This isn't very important, but there actually is a purple box, but
like many boxes hogging up "colorspace" this one isn't too exciting.
Its a telephone hold button... (woo woo) 
> one of the problems is that serious crypto chips are pretty
> expensive. but an analog scrambler would actually be a decent
> start on all this, and I bet it could be built pretty cheaply.
Does anyone know of sources for des chips???
Are there any public key chips out there???
Has anyone ever tried putting PGP on a chip??? RSA??? (Are these too
slow for realistic real time hardware voice/data encryption??)
I know a little about digital electronics (I am a computer engineering
student) and I would love to get some data books and see if I could
come up with a secure "encryption box" that people could build. 
Obviously such things are available from AT&T, etc... but they come at
a premium due to the fact that people who need such security normally
have the cash for it. I little public key encryption box that is 
arguably easy to construct and costs less than $50 in parts would
catch on fast in the hacker world. At that point, someone would go into
business selling the things, as compaines did with blue boxes (remmeber
how apple computers got started?) and red boxes (look in 2600 marketplace.)
Please anyone send me info on possible vendors/databooks and I will definately
look into this.

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-= Tom Cross AKA The White Ninja / Decius 6i5 */^\* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=- TWN615@mindvox.phantom.com  GT7508B@prism.gatech.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=
=- "Government is not a reason, not an eloquence; it is a force. Like fire, =-
-=- it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington -=-=

In message <199508152206.SAA23244@acmex.gatech.edu>, PHrEaK! writes:
[...]
>> one of the problems is that serious crypto chips are pretty
>> expensive. but an analog scrambler would actually be a decent
>> start on all this, and I bet it could be built pretty cheaply.
>Does anyone know of sources for des chips???

CEI makes a "Super Crypt Chip" that does single and tripple DES,
I beleve you can clock it at 25Mhz and get 32bits of cyphertext
out per cycle in single DES mode, it is somewhat slower (but not
three times slower) in tripple DES mode.  I beleve that's what
UUNET uses in their LanGuardian product.  I have the spec sheet in
a box somewhere if anyone needs the part number.   Definitly
more then fast enough to encrypt voice traffic.

>Are there any public key chips out there???

I think NEC makes one.  I know AT&T makes one.  DEC had some, but
they may not have been a comercial product.  Sorry I don't have part
numbers, and havn't read a spec sheet for any of them.

>Has anyone ever tried putting PGP on a chip??? RSA??? (Are these too
>slow for realistic real time hardware voice/data encryption??)

DEC had a chip in the lab that could RSA encrypt/decrypt at a rather
hiigh speed, unfortunitly I don't recall the speed - something like
a DS0's worth (or it may have as low as 32Kbits/sec worth) - less 
then a T1.

I have no doubt that there are some very fast hardware IDEA chips
(which is what I think you need to make go fast to get a hardware
PGPphone to go fast - well the codec as well)

>I know a little about digital electronics (I am a computer engineering
>student) and I would love to get some data books and see if I could
>come up with a secure "encryption box" that people could build. 
>Obviously such things are available from AT&T, etc... but they come at
>a premium due to the fact that people who need such security normally
>have the cash for it. I little public key encryption box that is 
>arguably easy to construct and costs less than $50 in parts would
>catch on fast in the hacker world. At that point, someone would go into
>business selling the things, as compaines did with blue boxes (remmeber
>how apple computers got started?) and red boxes (look in 2600 marketplace.)
>Please anyone send me info on possible vendors/databooks and I will definately
>look into this.

I'm afarid it won't be $50 worth of parts untill you start buying
thousands of chips at once.

>Of course, if it was a substantial improvement over the
>other "Internet Phone" stuff that's out there, and had
>a good way of dealing with switching, etc., then people
>would use it to make "free" l.d. phone calls on the net,
>and the cryptography would get a free ride.


>Generally, you are right in suggesting that anything that
>requires people to crawl behind their computers, attach
>new cables, purchase and debug a sound card under Windows,
>and generally engage in techno-weenie hardware manipulations
>will have less appeal than something plug and play. Even
>given the extremely user-hostile elements of PGP the software,
>I would be surprised if PGPFone became as popular.

Hmm, oportunities for 'consulting fees' abound in setting up PGP, PGPFone
is another one. ;-)