RE: Mixmaster status

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I apologize for being so terse in my first message. This is not a red
herring. The organization that has approached me is very pro-privacy and
anonymity. I see nothing but good coming from this venture.

I will be very active in the development of the commercial version of
Mixmaster.

Let me be crystal clear.
1) I will not support any version of Mixmaster that is weakened.
2) All future clients will be able to generate the current message format.
3) All future servers will be able to read the current message format.
4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code.

While I have not discussed it, I can not imagine that there would not also
be a free version of the server code (with source). Without remailers what
is the point of the client software? 


At 8:45 PM 9/14/95, ROBO Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
>Flame Remailer <remailer@flame.alias.net> wrote:
>
>> Subject: Mixmaster status
>>
>>   There has been an offer to purchase and commercially develop Mixmaster.
>>   This will hasten the development of Mixmaster for other platforms (e.g.
>>   Dos, Windows  Macintosh), and bring significant improvements to the
>>   interface, but I will not compromise on the level of security provided by
>>   Mixmaster. Free client software will continue to be available.
>>
>>   This could be the big breakthrough for remailers, finally thrusting them
>>   out of the hobbyist's closet into the corporate world.
>>
>> I wonder. Where is the commercial market for remailers? Who has an
>> application for them except hobbyinst? Why would there be a commercial
>> incentive to run a mixmaster server, or even a client?
>>
>> Could this "offer" be a red herring?
>
>I wondered the same thing myself.  It would certainly be a more
>cost-effective way for the NSA to compromise Mixmaster technology
>than by brute force.
>
>Consider this scenario ...  Mixmaster get's bought by the Acme
>Crypto Company of Ft. Meade, MD.  They "improve" it, and offer a new
>version.  It's even FREE (for non-commerical use)!  But their
>"improvements" make it incompatible with previous versions, and so
>you have to upgrade.  The new "commercial" version comes with no
>SOURCE CODE, of course...

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----------------------------------------------------------
Lance Cottrell   loki@obscura.com
PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server.
Mixmaster, the next generation remailer, is now available!
http://obscura.com/~loki/Welcome.html or FTP to obscura.com

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra.  Suddenly
it flips over, pinning you underneath.  At night the ice
weasels come."
                        --Nietzsche
----------------------------------------------------------

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   Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 01:03:58 -0700
   From: loki@obscura.com (Lance Cottrell)

   Let me be crystal clear.
   1) I will not support any version of Mixmaster that is weakened.
   2) All future clients will be able to generate the current message format.
   3) All future servers will be able to read the current message format.
   4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code.

And also that Mixmaster(tm) is a trademark of Lance Cottrell, and as
long as he owns it, he controls the use of it.  If you trust Lance,
you can trust the name Mixmaster(tm).

   While I have not discussed it, I can not imagine that there would not also
   be a free version of the server code (with source). Without remailers what
   is the point of the client software? 

I'm confused here.  Isn't every copy of mixmaster potentially a client
and/or server?  That seems to me to be one of the beautiful aspects of
mixmaster -- run a remailer and you greatly increase your own privacy.


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-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>    http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | PGP ok
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)  | America neither a Christian,
Potsdam, NY 13676 |  Jewish, Islamic, nor atheist (etc&) nation.  This is good.

Anonymous writes:
# Consider this scenario ...  Mixmaster get's bought by the Acme
# Crypto Company of Ft. Meade, MD.  They "improve" it, and offer a new
# version.  It's even FREE (for non-commerical use)!  But their
# "improvements" make it incompatible with previous versions, and so
# you have to upgrade.  The new "commercial" version comes with no
# SOURCE CODE, of course...

Lance Cottrell writes:
> 4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code.
>
> While I have not discussed it, I can not imagine that there would not also
> be a free version of the server code (with source). Without remailers what
> is the point of the client software?

Beyond taking Lance on his PGP-signed-word, which I'm strongly inclined to do,
I suspect he may not have much legal leeway in this regard.

With the caveat that I Am Not A Lawyer, it seems to me that the GNU General
Public License (Version 1 from 1989, Mix/GNU.license in the Mixmaster .tar or 
http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/docs/Gnu_License), which covers all extant 
distributions of Mixmaster, has some significant implications for any
commercial development of Mixmaster. It's applicable to "the Program or any 
derivative work under copyright law: that is to say, a work containing the
Program or a portion of it, either verbatim or with modifications and/or
translated into another language". 

The GNU GPL specifies that:
	
 	2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of
	it, and copy and distribute such modifications under the terms of 
	Paragraph 1 above, provided that you also do the following:
	[...]
	b) cause the whole of any work that you distribute or publish, that
    	in whole or in part contains the Program or any part thereof, either
    	with or without modifications, to be licensed at no charge to all
    	third parties under the terms of this General Public License (except
    	that you may choose to grant warranty protection to some or all
    	third parties, at your option).

and that:

	3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a portion or 
	derivative of it, under Paragraph 2) in object code or executable 
	form under the terms of Paragraphs 1 and 2 above provided that you 
	also do one of the following:
 	a) accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable
    	source code, [...] or,
	b) accompany it with a written offer, [...] to give any third party 
	free (except for a nominal charge for the cost of distribution) a 
	complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, [...]

So it looks to me as though Mixmaster source code will continue to be 
legally available, no matter what....

Better informed interpretations are enthusiastically solicited.
 
-Futplex <futplex@pseudonym.com>

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:48:14 -0400 (EDT)
   From: futplex@pseudonym.com (Futplex)

   Lance Cottrell writes:
   > 4) There will always be a free version of the client with source code.

   Beyond taking Lance on his PGP-signed-word, which I'm strongly inclined to do,
   I suspect he may not have much legal leeway in this regard.

There *will* always be a free version of the client with source code,
but the proprietary improvements will probably not be merged into the
free version.  Lance, and only Lance, as copyright holder, has the
publish the code under a different copyright.  It's the same thing
that Phil Z. did with ViacryptPGP.

-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>    http://www.crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | PGP ok
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)  | America neither a Christian,
Potsdam, NY 13676 |  Jewish, Islamic, nor atheist (etc&) nation.  This is good.