cypherpunks press releases/contact list: YES!! DO IT!!

I'm going to argue against TCM and others who are opposed to a 
"cypherpunk press release" because this is not an "organized group".

a press release mechanism is one way by which the organization of this
group can be increased. and I'm going to say something heretical 
in cypherpunk circles, but imho, ORGANIZATION == POWER. this is
a basic rule of life that all the rabid libertarians and cryptoanarchist
loners here hate to admit, but it's really true and inescapable.

anyone who wants to issue press releases for the "cypherpunks", I say,
GO FOR IT. don't let someone discourage this because this is an
"anarchy". that's actually an excellent reason for you to JUST DO IT!!
some will be willing to have their names on the list, and they will
email you. others will flame you and not want their name included. simply
ignore the later category!!

the cypherpunk logo is not copyrighted. no one has any say on who or what
a "cypherpunk" is. so, let someone pick a reality and let it prosper
or wilt by assent and "voting with the feet".

just be careful not to misrepresent anyone. start a list, just like anyone can
start a FAQ. a list of names to contact and their specialties would be
*excellent* for this purpose. occasional press reports on what is happening
on list traffic would be very useful, too.

look, there are some very tangible and definite ways to advance the
cypherpunk agenda. there are many here who like to play in the dark
and shadows and not make any noise. that's fine!! but don't expect everyone
to share your disinterest in publicity or organization. if this is in
fact an anarchy, why are you discouraging anyone from pursing that which
interests them??

IMHO playing in the dark, not trying to appeal to the widespread masses
through the media and everything else at hand, is just the NSA's way
of trying to manupulate reality through "back door" approaches.

I again suggest that a simple list of poeople here who are willing to
talk to the press, organized under their expertise/speciality, is an
*excellent* idea that is an idea whose time has come. 

this is such a great idea that *I* may do it if nobody does it after
a week or two.


--Vlad Nuri

"Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes:
> I'm going to argue against TCM and others who are opposed to a 
> "cypherpunk press release" because this is not an "organized group".

Look, L. (may I call you L.?) --

we've gone over this many times. We aren't a group. We're a mailing
list. We've got a diversity of opinions, and we have no organization
-- nor do we want one.

> anyone who wants to issue press releases for the "cypherpunks", I say,
> GO FOR IT.

Except for the fact that it would more or less be a lie. There is no
"cypherpunks" position, so you can't release anything on the subject. 

> this is such a great idea that *I* may do it if nobody does it after
> a week or two.

I thought your last attempts at such stuff were dismal failures.

.pm

> "Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes:
> > I'm going to argue against TCM and others who are opposed to a 
> > "cypherpunk press release" because this is not an "organized group".
> 
> Look, L. (may I call you L.?) --
> 
> we've gone over this many times. We aren't a group. We're a mailing
> list. We've got a diversity of opinions, and we have no organization
> -- nor do we want one.

True enough, but there are sometimes rough consenses on technical questions,
and if it were clear enough that these were collective in nature and not to
be ascribed to any particular person, e.g.:

"Consensus on cypherpunks seems to be that 40 bit encryption is not viable
 for commercial applications, and that Netscape seems to have taken less
 than due care to choose an appropriate random seed for its session keys."

-- 
Craig Hubley                Business that runs on knowledge
Craig Hubley & Associates   needs software that runs on the net
mailto:craig@hubley.com     416-778-6136    416-778-1965 FAX
Seventy Eaton Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4J 2Z5

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hello craig@passport.ca (Craig Hubley)
  and perry@piermont.com
  and cypherpunks@toad.com

craig@passport.ca (Craig Hubley) writes:
...
> > we've gone over this many times. We aren't a group. We're a mailing
> > list. We've got a diversity of opinions, and we have no organization
...
> True enough, but there are sometimes rough consenses on technical questions,
...
Consenses or consensuses or consenci? Maybe consensen? Consensix?

> "Consensus on cypherpunks seems to be that 40 bit encryption is not viable
>  for commercial applications, and that Netscape seems to have taken less
>  than due care to choose an appropriate random seed for its session keys."

Careful there, that comma is rather small to be between two completely
unrelated statements. You might want a semicolon, full stop or
better yet a paragraph break.

If you want another to make a round number, how about something
about GAK and a-screwed keys? I think there's a consensus on
that one... (definitely stronger than on the Netscape point, anyway)


Good luck, anyway!

Jiri
- --
If you want an answer, please mail to <jirib@cs.monash.edu.au>.
On sweeney, I may delete without reading!
PGP 463A14D5 (but it's at home so it'll take a day or two)
PGP EF0607F9 (but it's at uni so don't rely on it too much)

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Craig Hubley writes:
> > we've gone over this many times. We aren't a group. We're a mailing
> > list. We've got a diversity of opinions, and we have no organization
> > -- nor do we want one.
> 
> True enough, but there are sometimes rough consenses on technical questions,
> and if it were clear enough that these were collective in nature and not to
> be ascribed to any particular person, e.g.:
> 
> "Consensus on cypherpunks seems to be that 40 bit encryption is not viable
>  for commercial applications, and that Netscape seems to have taken less
>  than due care to choose an appropriate random seed for its session keys."

Why bother? Why not just say, if asked, that most reasonable technical
experts believe 40 bits are too small, or show them by a technical
demonstratino as we already have?

There is this widespread and wholely misplaced affection for
"cypherpunks". We aren't a company or an organization. This is a
mailing list, and occassionally a seminar series in places like
NoCal. It isn't a "group".

Perry