Re: Scientology and police visit XS4ALL Amsterdam

> 
>      This is the second or third time I've seen descriptions of such
>      raids where cult (no, I'm not trying to be diplomatic)
>      representatives were present and participating.  Is this legal in
>      Amsterdam?  How about in the U.S.?  Britain?
> 
Probably. Amsterdam isn't exactly the wild west, and they didn't take the
computer equipment with them, they just inventoried everything so to have
something to sell when their claims prove valid. Which I doubt (shit, I
will be moving to this country in a couple of weeks...)

>      If a police officer has a warrant then I really don't have much
>      choice about letting him in.  Am I also under an obligation to
>      allow the people who filed for the warrant into my home or
>      business?
> 
I don't know whether this is valid. I assume so. I also think it is about
time we develop some ideas about anonymous web publishing. Probably some
chained cgi scripts could do, but how to get around traffic analysis?

-- 
Cees de Groot, OpenLink Software		         <cg@bofh.lake.de>
262ui/2048: ID=4F018825 FP=5653C0DDECE4359D FFDDB8F7A7970789 [Key on servers]
http://www.lake.de/sonst/homepages/s2449/index.html

Anyone ready to risk running a "Scientology .sig virus server"?


Here's the idea. The CoS apparently freaks out and sues anyone who
distributes CoS material, even those who quote small portions of it.
In the same spirit of the "export-a-sig-PGP" system, why not break
the CoS materials up into n pieces (each piece being 5-10 lines long)
and let people request chunks from a server to put in this .sig?
The assumption is, the Church can't sue everyone (legal funds
being limited). I think I'd do it just to piss them off.

To spread the risk around even more, I'd place the "piece server"
on k different HTTP sites just so they can't raid them all. Even
better would be to use a script on one master server to
dynamically return HTTP redirects to k different URLs to the real
servers. Another option is dynamic DNS.

Finally, you could have the server run thru email via a chained
anonymous return block. The result would be sent back thru
a remailer chain.

The nastiest thing I can think of is to get the CancelBot people to
let a massive broadcast of CoS materials be sent to UseNet. Other
options include servers which detect known CoS source addresses
and provide "fake fronts" to them. (easily doable with CGI/CERN server
and IDENT).

Cypherpunks oughta be able to figure out something to show those idiots
why their actions are ultimately futile.

-Ray

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hello Ray Cromwell and all other cypherpunks,

> Anyone ready to risk running a "Scientology .sig virus server"?
...
> In the same spirit of the "export-a-sig-PGP" system, why not break
> the CoS materials up into n pieces (each piece being 5-10 lines long)
...

I don't really follow the Co$ saga, but when I last looked it seemed
as though six lines (one of them the title) are sufficient for them
to be unhappy at you. If I remember correctly, those six lines said
to go to the zoo to practice telepathy with animals...

(No they didn't say *how*.)

So I don't know whether the "export-PGP-sig" system will be any use.

...
> To spread the risk around even more, I'd place the "piece server"
> on k different HTTP sites just so they can't raid them all. Even
> better would be to use a script on one master server to
...

master server = single point of pressure

> Cypherpunks oughta be able to figure out something to show those idiots
> why their actions are ultimately futile.

It always was, but do you have the money and the spirit to fight them?


Jiri
- --
If you want an answer, please mail to <jirib@cs.monash.edu.au>.
On sweeney, I may delete without reading!
PGP 463A14D5 (but it's at home so it'll take a day or two)
PGP EF0607F9 (but it's at uni so don't rely on it too much)

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>: : >>: OT7-48
>: : >>: 1.   Find some plants, trees, etc., and communicate to them
>: : >>: individually until you know they received your communication.
>: : >>: 2.   Go to a zoo or a place with many types of life and communicate
>: : >>: with each of them until you know the communication is
>: : >>: received and, if possible, returned.

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Jiri Baum wrote:

> 
> >: : >>: OT7-48
> >: : >>: 1.   Find some plants, trees, etc., and communicate to them
> >: : >>: individually until you know they received your communication.
> >: : >>: 2.   Go to a zoo or a place with many types of life and communicate
> >: : >>: with each of them until you know the communication is
> >: : >>: received and, if possible, returned.
> 


I gotta read more of this drivil!   ROTFL!   ROTFL!!!


No wonder they dont want it out!  They look like tey belong in the 
funny-farm....Have you ever seen those cute uniforms they wear?  
[really!  Hollywood california, I have *been* to their "church"]   
especially the girls, reminds me of school-uniforms, but they are all so 
grown up [yum!] but with the minds of a moron....[see above drivil they read]

I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I just *had* to say it!


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Hello starrd <starrd@iia2.org>
  and Ray Cromwell <rjc@clark.net>, cg@bofh.lake.de, cypherpunks@toad.com

starrd wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Jiri Baum wrote:

...
> > >: : >>: 
...[snip]
> I gotta read more of this drivil!   ROTFL!   ROTFL!!!
...

I feel I should point out that you have no proof that the text you have
attributed to me was in fact posted by me, and in fact you have reason
to believe otherwise since I usually PGP-sign my entire post including
any signature.

> I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I just *had* to say it!

Off topic, but I have been publicly accused so I feel I should publicly
respond in the same forum.


Jiri
- --
<jirib@cs.monash.edu.au>     <jiri@melb.dialix.oz.au>     PGP 463A14D5

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On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Jiri Baum wrote:
> 
> I feel I should point out that you have no proof that the text you have
> attributed to me was in fact posted by me, and in fact you have reason
> to believe otherwise since I usually PGP-sign my entire post including
> any signature.
> 

Wasn't a flame my friend.....wasn't meant as one either.

> Off topic, but I have been publicly accused so I feel I should publicly
> respond in the same forum.
> 

no problem :-^)

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|    Creator of the original                |         Get paid to upload  |
|      Patriot's Archives                    \     shareware to BBSes and |
| ftp: iia.org /pub/users/patriot              \_____      the Internet!  |
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|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Hello cypherpunks,

starrd wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Jiri Baum wrote:
> > 
> > I feel I should point out that you have no proof that the text you have
> > attributed to me was in fact posted by me, and in fact you have reason
...

> Wasn't a flame my friend.....wasn't meant as one either.

It wasn't taken as one... I quite agree with your description of the text
in question as "drivil" (though I wouldn't have spelled it quite that way).
We probably shouldn't judge without context, but I hear the context is
of the same intelectual quality anyway.

> > Off topic, but I have been publicly accused so I feel I should publicly
> > respond in the same forum.

I should have been clearer; that "accused" is not of stupidity, but of
posting a) allegedly trade secret material 
        b) allegedly copyright material allegedly in excess of fair use.

For which you have no proof and in fact have reason to believe otherwise etc.

> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
...

By the way, starrd, why don't you sign your posts?
You obviously have PGP...


Hope this is less ambiguous than my previous post :-)

Jiri
- --
<jirib@cs.monash.edu.au>     <jiri@melb.dialix.oz.au>     PGP 463A14D5

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>>      This is the second or third time I've seen descriptions of such
>>      raids where cult (no, I'm not trying to be diplomatic)
>>      representatives were present and participating.  Is this legal in
>>      Amsterdam?  How about in the U.S.?  Britain?
>> 
>Probably. Amsterdam isn't exactly the wild west, and they didn't take the
>computer equipment with them, they just inventoried everything so to have
>something to sell when their claims prove valid. Which I doubt (shit, I
>will be moving to this country in a couple of weeks...)

The good news is xs4all were prepared for them and have mounted a publicity
campaign against co$. co$ has withdrawn their complaint (though xs4all have
not be _officially notified yet) in an attempt to patch up things but it's
too late for co$ to save them from the wrath.

xs4all has a lot of support in all facets of .nl life so co$ is going to have
a bad time screwing with them. From what I learnt there will be a lot of noise
RSN in the press.

My personal view is co$ deserves all the flak they get.

Mark
mark@lochard.com.au
The above opinions are rumoured to be mine.