Re: Linking = Showing = Transferring?

At 08:33 AM 9/15/95 -0700, Charles Lewton wrote:

>Not quite squashed, Duncan.  Bullet placement (poor by some standards)
>is all that prevented Mr. Weaver from croaking like his unfortunate wife.
>She is said to have "pissed off" the feds but was not charged with a
>single actionable item yet she remains quite dead.
>
>Unless I have missed something somewhere, no TLA is concerned in the slightest
>with individual liberty.  That notion should keep a rational person awake
>nights.
>
>Chuck
>

In response to Chuck and Lucky, I can only say that the Weavers suffered 57%
casualties (4/7) and 28% KIA (2/7).  The Feds suffered .25% KIA (1/400).  I
don't think any Feds were merely wounded.

They brought murder charges against two members of the group and lost.  They
settled wrongful death suits for $3.1 million.  They also lost the publicity
war.  They had to change their procedures because of Ruby Ridge and Waco.
They energized the opposition.

The casualties were unfortunate but when facing force ratios of 57/1 or
better, the outcome has to be considered a major victory for Randy Weaver.
The case is a demonstration of modern conflicts in which litigation and
publicity count as much as guns.  On that field, the Feds don't hold all the
cards.

DCF

"The libertarian and conservative coalition of the 'Right' is a
low-maintenance coalition because its members mostly want to be left alone
while the special interest group coalition of the 'Left' is a
high-maintenance coalition because all of its members need to be given a
vast dose of government cash daily."

On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Duncan Frissell wrote:

> At 08:33 AM 9/15/95 -0700, Charles Lewton wrote:
> 
> >Not quite squashed, Duncan.  Bullet placement (poor by some standards)
> >is all that prevented Mr. Weaver from croaking like his unfortunate wife.
> >She is said to have "pissed off" the feds but was not charged with a
> >single actionable item yet she remains quite dead.
> >
> >Unless I have missed something somewhere, no TLA is concerned in the slightest
> >with individual liberty.  That notion should keep a rational person awake
> >nights.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> 
> In response to Chuck and Lucky, I can only say that the Weavers suffered 57%
> casualties (4/7) and 28% KIA (2/7).  The Feds suffered .25% KIA (1/400).  I
> don't think any Feds were merely wounded.
> 
> They brought murder charges against two members of the group and lost.

Careful here, they lost because the FBI refused to cooperate with the 
prosecutor.  It was looking like a open and shut case before this.

>  They settled wrongful death suits for $3.1 million.  They also lost 
> the publicity war.  They had to change their procedures because of Ruby 
> Ridge and Waco.

Actually, they just reenforced the old policy, which had been degrading 
in practice for quite a long while in the case of Ruby Ridge.

> They energized the opposition.
> 
> The casualties were unfortunate but when facing force ratios of 57/1 or
> better, the outcome has to be considered a major victory for Randy Weaver.

Considering the limited rules of engagement (i.e. low intensity sniper 
conflict only) I don't think you can really take 57/1 as a force ratio of 
meaningful impact.

> The case is a demonstration of modern conflicts in which litigation and
> publicity count as much as guns.  On that field, the Feds don't hold all the
> cards.

On this I agree with you.

> 
> DCF
> 
> "The libertarian and conservative coalition of the 'Right' is a
> low-maintenance coalition because its members mostly want to be left alone
> while the special interest group coalition of the 'Left' is a
> high-maintenance coalition because all of its members need to be given a
> vast dose of government cash daily."   
> 
> 
> 

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