ON OFF-TOPIC

ON  OFF-TOPIC

     THE UNITED STATES "FEDERAL" GOVERNMENT HAS NO LEGITIMACY!


       CRYPTO CODERS SUPPLY THE MEANS!
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS SUPPLY THE MOTIVATION!


conspiracy theorist = alternative political theorist
NOT= AP/ABC/CBS/NBC/CIA/FBI/U.S GOV'N./New York Times/Washington Post
opinion moulders syndicate

"extremist right-wing kook" = old fashioned American patriot
Left term used often by left-wing extremist liberal statist kooks.

The United States "Federal" Government - we'll be even more American
without it.



                                              PUSH EM BACK! PUSH EM BACK!
                                              WWWAAAYYYY  BBBAAACCCK!
                                              BBBEEEAAATTTT  STATE!


Was this really needed?

Gary Jeffers writes:
>                     ON  OFF-TOPIC
> 
>      THE UNITED STATES "FEDERAL" GOVERNMENT HAS NO LEGITIMACY!

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> 
> Was this really needed?

Yes, it is my bet that there are some patriots in this list.  The desire 
to protect one's privacy is a very "patriot" thiung to want to do.  
CyPherpunks appears to be a lot of peole who are against big brothert 
government, and quite probably for restoring the constitution...am I right?


> > Gary Jeffers writes:
> >                     ON  OFF-TOPIC
> > 
> >      THE UNITED STATES "FEDERAL" GOVERNMENT HAS NO LEGITIMACY!
> 

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| For index of available files: descript.ion           \  uploader.zip    |
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starrd writes:
> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> > 
> > Was this really needed?
> 
> Yes, it is my bet that there are some patriots in this list.

Pardon, but I don't care. There are also several socialists on this
list. Shall I help them out by posting a long tract on the labor
theory of value? There are several religious christians here. Shall we
begin to discuss the divinity of Jesus? There are also some Jews here
-- we could have a bunch of religious debates, and the atheists could
kick in some mud, too. There are lots of folks here who wear shoes --
perhaps we could discuss the merits of different brands.

> The desire 
> to protect one's privacy is a very "patriot" thiung to want to do.  

But this isn't a list for "patriot"s.

> CyPherpunks appears to be a lot of peole who are against big brothert 
> government, and quite probably for restoring the constitution...am I right?

Cypherpunks is a list for people interested in cryptography and its
impact on privacy, law, society, etc. It is not a list for people to
discuss libertarianism, socialism, constitutionalism, whether the
president has just flown over you ranch in a black helicopter, whether
the CIA was responsible for brainwashing your pet rat Algernon,
whether David Koresh was the messiah, or how many members of the
Federal Protective Service it takes to change a paper shredder.

There are lots of places to discuss these topics on the net. There is
only Cypherpunks for discussing the overall impact of cryptography on
society, and this is a fairly good place to discuss crypto algorithms
and the like because it is (amazingly) fairly high s/n compared to,
say, sci.crypt. Please help out by not polluting one of the few places
to discuss these issues with stuff you can talk about anywhere.

Perry

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 20:57:32 -0400
> From: Perry E. Metzger <perry@piermont.com>
> To: starrd <starrd@iia2.org>
> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: ON OFF-TOPIC 
> 
> 
> starrd writes:
> > On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> > > 
> > > Was this really needed?
> > 
> > Yes, it is my bet that there are some patriots in this list.
> 
> Pardon, but I don't care. There are also several socialists on this
> list. Shall I help them out by posting a long tract on the labor
> theory of value? There are several religious christians here. Shall we
> begin to discuss the divinity of Jesus? There are also some Jews here
> -- we could have a bunch of religious debates, and the atheists could
> kick in some mud, too. There are lots of folks here who wear shoes --
> perhaps we could discuss the merits of different brands.
> 

Nope.  but the patriots & the cyPHerpunks share a common goal, and belief 
that it is none of the government's business what we think or want to 
share with our computers.

 > > The desire 
> > to protect one's privacy is a very "patriot" thiung to want to do.  
> 
> But this isn't a list for "patriot"s.

Yes it is.  This list is for anyone who wants to preserve their privacy, 
but I do understand what you really meant.  :-^)


> > CyPherpunks appears to be a lot of peole who are against big brother
> > government, and quite probably for restoring the constitution...am I right?
> 
> Cypherpunks is a list for people interested in cryptography and its
> impact on privacy, law, society, etc. It is not a list for people to
> discuss libertarianism, socialism, constitutionalism, whether the
> president has just flown over you ranch in a black helicopter, whether
> the CIA was responsible for brainwashing your pet rat Algernon,
> whether David Koresh was the messiah, or how many members of the
> Federal Protective Service it takes to change a paper shredder.

Agreed 

> 
> There are lots of places to discuss these topics on the net. There is
> only Cypherpunks for discussing the overall impact of cryptography on
> society, and this is a fairly good place to discuss crypto algorithms
> and the like because it is (amazingly) fairly high s/n compared to,
> say, sci.crypt. Please help out by not polluting one of the few places
> to discuss these issues with stuff you can talk about anywhere.

Again, I agree with you Perry.   In fact on a crypto-note [is that a 
word?] I would enjoy some discussion on SecDrv 1.4....anyone wanna take 
about it v. PGP?  [is it as secure as PGP?]


||||||||||||email address: starrd@iia2.org or starrd@cinenet.net|||||||||||
|    Creator of the original                |         Get paid to upload  |
|      Patriot's Archives                    \     shareware to BBSes and |
| ftp: iia.org /pub/users/patriot              \_____      the Internet!  |
| ftp: wuarchive.wustl.edu /pub/msdos_uploads/patriot\      Get file:     |
| For index of available files: descript.ion           \  uploader.zip    |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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>Nope.  but the patriots & the cyPHerpunks share a common goal, and belief 
>that it is none of the government's business what we think or want to 
>share with our computers.

Poor you, the only major political party to come out with a pro crypto statement 
is a socialist party.

The problem is currently with the right wing, right wing democrats such as 
Clinton and practically all the Republicans. 

Crypto is outsi]de the left right debate which centers on ecconomic goals, 
whether to help the poor or the rich. The crypto debate is on the 
authoritarian/libertarian axis which is orthogonal. Geroge Orwell was a 
socialist, John Stuart Mill a Liberal, both had very anti-authoritarian views 
which used to be known as libertarian. 

If you want a debate on how to convince the authoritarians then perhaps you will 
get some interest. Trying to make crypto control out to be a left/right or 
pro/anti gun control issue is no more relevant than the pro/anti abortion 
debate.

	Phill

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995 hallam@w3.org wrote:

> 
> >Nope.  but the patriots & the cyPHerpunks share a common goal, and belief 
> >that it is none of the government's business what we think or want to 
> >share with our computers.
> 
> Poor you, the only major political party to come out with a pro crypto statement 
> is a socialist party.

I think the libertarian position is inherently pro-crypto.
Besides, the French are socialist, and well, as far as crypto goes...

> 
> The problem is currently with the right wing, right wing democrats such as 
> Clinton and practically all the Republicans. 
> 

Whatever. Clinton proposed crypto, some democrat wrote the electronic
decency act. (In fact Gingrich was against it)

> If you want a debate on how to convince the authoritarians then perhaps you will 
> get some interest. Trying to make crypto control out to be a left/right or 
> pro/anti gun control issue is no more relevant than the pro/anti abortion 
> debate.

I think that to some extent it is very relavant to gun control in that
both can be abused and that both help the law-abiding citizen do things.

+---- Yih-Chun Hu (finger:yihchun@cs.washington.edu) ----------------------+
| http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/yihchun     yihchun@cs.washington.edu |
| http://weber.u.washington.edu/~yihchun         yihchun@u.washington.edu  |
+---- PGP Key Fingerprints (Keys by FINGER or on WWW) ---------------------+
| 1024/E50EC641        B2 A0 DE 9E 36 C0 EB A6  F9 3E D2 DD 2F 27 74 79    |
| 2047/DF0403F9        18 EB 62 C8 7F 06 04 67  42 76 24 E2 99 D1 07 DC    |
+---- Random Thought ------------------------------------------------------+
|I conducted an experiment to test Murphy's Law, but everything went wrong.|
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Yih-Chun Hu wrote:

> Whatever. Clinton proposed crypto, some democrat wrote the electronic
> decency act. (In fact Gingrich was against it)

Nevertheless, Gingrinch did not flinch when internet censorship 
ammendments to the telecom bill went right by him in the House.

-Thomas

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Yih-Chun Hu wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995 hallam@w3.org wrote:
> 
> Whatever. Clinton proposed crypto, some democrat wrote the electronic
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry.  Clipper precedes Clinton.    



> decency act. (In fact Gingrich was against it)


EBD

On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Yih-Chun Hu wrote:

> > The problem is currently with the right wing, right wing democrats such as 
> > Clinton and practically all the Republicans. 
> > 
> 
> Whatever. Clinton proposed crypto, some democrat wrote the electronic
> decency act. (In fact Gingrich was against it)

Well, Gingrich SAID he was against it.  But he hedged even on that, and 
he certainly didn't DO anything about his opposition to it, unlike his 
actions with regard to things he truly supports.

Jon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Lasser                <jlasser@rwd.goucher.edu>            (410)494-3072 
          Visit my home page at http://www.goucher.edu/~jlasser/
  You have a friend at the NSA: Big Brother is watching. Finger for PGP key.

> > 
> > Was this really needed?
> 
> Yes, it is my bet that there are some patriots in this list.  The desire 
> to protect one's privacy is a very "patriot" thiung to want to do.  
> CyPherpunks appears to be a lot of peole who are against big brothert 
> government, and quite probably for restoring the constitution...am I right?

I am one as well.. being pro-2nd amendment, and pro-1st.. and learning 
lots about the fight to protect them. Unlike some of the non-US readers 
in this list, I can see the clear connection between the 1st and 2nd 
amendment attacks.. if one falls, the other does as well. Both are slowly 
being whittled away to nothing (i.e. you can have only certain 
'assault-style' guns, and you can only be guaranteed certain types of 
free speech)

RobL

>     THE UNITED STATES "FEDERAL" GOVERNMENT HAS NO LEGITIMACY!

Of course not, but I don't think that the 1776 result is up for review.

This isn't about crypto nor about the social effects of crypto. Its just another 
looney conspiracy theory.


	Phill

On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Gary Jeffers wrote:

> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 22:42:42 -0500
> From: Gary Jeffers <gjeffers@socketis.net>
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: ON OFF-TOPIC
> 
>                     ON  OFF-TOPIC
> 
>      THE UNITED STATES "FEDERAL" GOVERNMENT HAS NO LEGITIMACY!
> 
> 
>        CRYPTO CODERS SUPPLY THE MEANS!
> CONSPIRACY THEORISTS SUPPLY THE MOTIVATION!
> 
> 
> conspiracy theorist = alternative political theorist
> NOT= AP/ABC/CBS/NBC/CIA/FBI/U.S GOV'N./New York Times/Washington Post
> opinion moulders syndicate
> 
> "extremist right-wing kook" = old fashioned American patriot
> Left term used often by left-wing extremist liberal statist kooks.
> 
> The United States "Federal" Government - we'll be even more American
> without it.
> 
> 
> 
>                                               PUSH EM BACK! PUSH EM BACK!
>                                               WWWAAAYYYY  BBBAAACCCK!
>                                               BBBEEEAAATTTT  STATE!
> 
> 

So true my friend, I have been saying this for years.  Glad to find 
another patriot here.   BTW, I love your cheer!

||||||||||||email address: starrd@iia2.org or starrd@cinenet.net|||||||||||
|    Creator of the original                |         Get paid to upload  |
|      Patriot's Archives                    \     shareware to BBSes and |
| ftp: iia.org /pub/users/patriot              \_____      the Internet!  |
| ftp: wuarchive.wustl.edu /pub/msdos_uploads/patriot\      Get file:     |
| For index of available files: descript.ion           \  uploader.zip    |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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