Re: PA Remailer Concerns

At 2:13 AM 10/16/95, Futplex wrote:

>I would very much like to see this law tested. I think it could prove fairly
>important to attack it with a well-planned, benign test case rather than wait
>for the next National Liberation spam or a death threat.
>
>I don't live in PA, but I would be willing to participate as the defendant in
>a test case under the right circumstances. Presumably I would open an
>account with an ISP in Penna., set up a remailer on the account (need to find
>an ISP that clearly allows that), and have somebody send a message through it.
>
>We would need to design a promising test case and find an attorney willing &
>able to offer pro bono services.

I'm not a lawyer, though I hang out on the "Cyberia" list and I watched a
lot of the OJ trial. :-}

Seriously, it is hard to "design a promising test case" in this way.
They--the Pennsylvania law enforcement authorities--don't have to take the
bait. They can just do nothing, until an incident arises which provokes
them. Maybe next year, maybe five years from now. Such an incident is
likely to be one that they figure will make for a popular prosecution. One
of the Four Horseman, probably.

--Tim May

Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
Corralitos, CA              | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^756839      | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May writes:
[...]
 > One of the Four Horseman, probably.
[...]

I feel really dumb, but what is that "Four Horseman" thing ?
[i saw that several times quoted on the list but I never understood,
nor found in faq,...]

Thx in advance for enlighting me

dl
--
Laurent Demailly * http://hplyot.obspm.fr/~dl/ * Linux|PGP|Gnu|Tcl|...  Freedom
Prime#1: cent cinq mille cent cinq milliards cent cinq mille cent soixante sept

munitions break $400 million in gold Chirac mururoa NORAD genetic

Laurent Demailly <dl@hplyot.obspm.fr> writes: 
> I feel really dumb, but what is that "Four Horseman" thing ?
> [i saw that several times quoted on the list but I never understood,
> nor found in faq,...]

You sure about the faq, grepping reveals:

    8.3.4. "How will privacy and anonymity be attacked?"
[...]
           - like so many other "computer hacker" items, as a tool for
              the "Four Horsemen": drug-dealers, money-launderers,
              terrorists, and pedophiles.

   17.5.7. "What limits on the Net are being proposed?"
[...]
           + Newspapers are complaining about the Four Horsemen of the
              Infocalypse:
             - terrorists, pedophiles, drug dealers, and money
                launderers

ie the idea that hysterical media demonization is used as a tool to
justify the net, a witch hunt.  A tatic in general: if you can make
something look bad in the eyes of the world, if you can sway public
opinion, you can do what you wish, and be applauded for it.  So, the
spread of untrue, or greatly exaggerated stories, as a conscious ploy
to obtain this effect.  Popular tatic of Freeh at the moment.  "Oh
gosh people can get *bomb* making information on the internet, we must
put a stop to this".

How to get what you want in 4 easy stages:

1. Have a target "thing" you wish to stop, yet lack any moral, or
practical reasons for doing so?

2. Pick a fear common to lots of people, something that will evoke a
gut reaction: terrorists, pedophiles, serial killers.

3. Scream loudly to the media that "thing" is being used by
perpetrators.  (Don't worry if this is true, or common to all other
things, or less common with "thing" than with other long established
systems - payphones, paper mail, private hotel rooms, lack of bugs in
all houses etc)

4. Say that the only way to stop perpetrators is to close down
"thing", or to regulate it to death, or to have laws forcing en-mass
tapability of all private communications on "thing".  Don't worry if
communicating on "thing" is a constitutionally protected right, if you
have done a good job in choosing and publicising the horsemen in 2, no
one will notice, they will be too busy clamouring for you to save them
from the supposed evils.

Adam

Sorry I'm late to the gate on this one, but from what
I have read on the traffic concerning this law (I've been
out of town a good bit lately, so I am playing catch-up)
there's been a few aspects of this odious law that have
been overlooked.

What struck me in a most glaring manner are the constitutional
issues surrounding this law. Specificly, aside from the remailer
aspects of the law, they attempt to enact prior restraint on
the publication of plans for electronic devices & the like.

The aspects of the law that cover publication do not look
as if they can pass constitutional muster. Especaily considering
the supreme court here has recently ruled that it is permissible
to publish unsigned political handbills and the like. Much like
what the output of an anonymous remailer produces after all.

Some of the issues they attempt to address in this law, are
done so poorly, and with such ignorance of legal precedent and
basic constitutional reference that I find it utterly amazing
that the govenor would sign it, and that it would have been
forwarded to him in the form they enacted.

I do not think that the law is capable of surviving any sort of
legal test based on much of what they've inserted. But I guess
that's for the courts to decide.

In any case, considering it's halloween, I would count the
Pensilvania Govenor lucky if Ben Franklin doesn't rise
from his grave and come strangle the bastard in his bed.

As it is, I'm sure old Ben could probably be used as a good
gyroscope with all the spinning in his grave that must be
going on. Pennsilvania the cradle of liberty? Hah, it looks
more like the cradle of repression to me. They sold liberty
and their souls in a devils bargain for an illusory peace of
mind with this one.


Tim Scanlon



________________________________________________________________
tfs@vampire.science.gmu.edu (NeXTmail, MIME)  Tim Scanlon
George Mason University     (PGP key avail.)  Public Affairs
I speak for myself, but often claim demonic possession

On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, Timothy C. May wrote:

> At 2:13 AM 10/16/95, Futplex wrote:
> 
> >I would very much like to see this law tested. I think it could prove fairly
> >important to attack it with a well-planned, benign test case rather than wait
> >for the next National Liberation spam or a death threat.
> >
> >I don't live in PA, but I would be willing to participate as the defendant in
> >a test case under the right circumstances. Presumably I would open an
> >account with an ISP in Penna., set up a remailer on the account (need to find
> >an ISP that clearly allows that), and have somebody send a message through it.
> >
> >We would need to design a promising test case and find an attorney willing &
> >able to offer pro bono services.
> 
> I'm not a lawyer, though I hang out on the "Cyberia" list and I watched a
> lot of the OJ trial. :-}
> 
> Seriously, it is hard to "design a promising test case" in this way.
> They--the Pennsylvania law enforcement authorities--don't have to take the
> bait. They can just do nothing, until an incident arises which provokes
> them. Maybe next year, maybe five years from now. Such an incident is
> likely to be one that they figure will make for a popular prosecution. One
> of the Four Horseman, probably.

I must've missed that day from the O.J. trial.  You are, of course, 
correct that you can't force the state to prosecute you.  You might try 
the following, however, depending on Pennsylvania law (where I am not 
admitted, this isn't legal advice, you aren't my client, and all that 
other crap ...):

Let's say someone decided to set up a commercial remailing service and 
had an aunt with an empty bedroom, phone lines, and a powerful computer 
which she only used to save her recipes.  She happens to live in 
Pennsylvania, near an ISP that allows remailers ...  She offers to help.

You obtain the service of Pennsylvania counsel to advise you on the legal 
aspects of your proposed service.  The lawyer refers you to the new 
statute and says it may be a problem.

Your proposal's success or failure rides on the interpretation of the 
statute. So you instruct your lawyer to review the possibility of filing 
a civil suit for declaratory relief concerning the constitutionality of 
the statute and the interpretation of the statute.  Your civil complaint 
frames the terms of the (public) debate and is the subject of any initial 
press coverage before the Pa. Attorney General has even heard of the suit....


 
> --Tim May
> 
> Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government.
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> Corralitos, CA              | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^756839      | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 

Not a lawyer on the Net, although I play one in real life.
**********************************************************
Flame away! I get treated worse in person every day!!