Re: Crypto APIs

At 04:29 PM 10/2/95 -0400, Matt Blaze wrote:
> It seems best to encourage the realistic
> side of NSA as much as possible...

Why? Surely the realists are more dangerous than the nuts.


> [...]
>
> In other
> words, the parts of the military that are concerned with actually
> securing communications want exactly what we want, and are just
> starting to realize it.

This does not necessarily protect our right to cryptography, any
more than it protects our right to full auto guns.


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derives from this right, not from the	|  
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Matt Blaze writes:
# It seems best to encourage the realistic side of NSA as much as possible...

James Donald writes:
> Why? Surely the realists are more dangerous than the nuts.

One way to look at it is this:

Could a Nutty NSA carry out its Nutty Agenda ?

If they could, then we'd better hope someone at Fort Meade does a better job
of promoting a more Realistic (read: free-strong-crypto-friendlier) Agenda.

If they couldn't, then we should focus our energies against the Realistic
Agenda, on the theory that the best NSA agenda is no agenda at all.

(I'm assuming that a Realistic Agenda has at least as good a chance of success
as a Nutty Agenda. If neither has a chance of success, then the distribution
of power among factions in the NSA is obviously irrelevant.)

Personally, I'm plenty cynical enough to fret about a possibility that the
Nuts might achieve their aims to some significant degree. So I'm inclined to
agree with Matt that cheering on the Realists is a wise strategy. 

I'm not sure how much luck we'll have convincing each other about the likely
outcome of the imposition of a Nutty Agenda on the U.S. Looks to me as though
they've imposed some pretty Nutty stuff on us already. Sure, some folks flaunt
the ITARs, but many (like me) fear them. Chalk up a win for the NSA Nuts in my
book.

-Futplex <futplex@pseudonym.com>

Futplex writes:
> Matt Blaze writes:
> # It seems best to encourage the realistic side of NSA as much as possible...
> 
> James Donald writes:
> > Why? Surely the realists are more dangerous than the nuts.
> 
> One way to look at it is this:
> 
> Could a Nutty NSA carry out its Nutty Agenda ?

I'd like to say the following: I don't think the NSA is inherently the
enemy at all. Signals intelligence and protecting the U.S. and its
citizens from signals intelligence is probably necessary. As a radical
libertarian, I'd like to see these activities carried out in the
private sector, but thats another story.

The real problem with the NSA is the same as the problem with the FBI
re: digital telephony. They've gotten used to a certain model of how
the world works and rather than adapt to new times where most people
have access to strong crypto, they have decided to use the laws to try
to retard the inevitable.

I'm sure some NSA types are listening, so let me say this: there is no
way on earth to stop the progress of a technology who's time has
come. I've heard an idiot from the FBI actually say in public, in
response to statements that the vast amount of open literature makes
it impossible to stop bright 14 year olds from writing good crypto
code, that "we aren't going to just accept this". Well, go off and
accept reality, folks. You can't stop strong cryptography from being
in the hands of the public. What you can do, however, is cost the
nation and the world billions if not trillions in damage. If crypto
had been in cellphone signaling equipment earlier billions in stolen
cellphone calls would have been saved -- ditto for credit card
systems. All you can succeed in doing is leeching the economy white
while trying to save a model that is doomed. You can't stop strong
crypto any more than the horseshoe makers could stop the automobile.

Learn to live with a new model for how you work now, and you will save
years of bitter and futile agony for everyone.

Perry