To Repeat: Credentials Not Considered Necessary

At 1:03 AM 11/5/95, Simon Spero wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Timothy C. May wrote:
>
>> Therefore, there are few ways that citizenship can be "checked." Period. A
>> foreigner who wishes to "prove" his non-U.S. status could, of course, show
>> his green card. But this is different from proving citizenship.
>>
>
>And here we have the rub. People with permanent residency (i.e. green
>cards) are fully entitled to access to strong crypto. Most foreign
>students are on J-1 visas, which do not grant permanent residency.

Irrelevant.

J-1 persons are still accorded the basic rights of citizens, save for a few
things like voting, holding certain offices, and perhaps jury duty (not
sure about this, as my recent jury summons was apparently based on my
Calif. Driver's License and required no form of identification whatsoever).

My basic point was that "J-1," "permanent resident," "citizen,"
"undocumented," and "completely and totally without proper papers" are, for
the purposes being discussed here, all essentially identical. Any sysadmin
who expects to have papers proving "citizenship" or any other status will
have a tough time.

Saying "People with permanent residency (i.e. green cards) are fully
entitled to access to strong crypto." and--presumably--implying that J-1
visa holders are _not_ entitled to use strong crypto within the U.S. (or,
for that matter, in their own countries, but this is another issue), is
misleading.

The laws about "showing a foreign national" certain items do not
differentiate, so far as I have seen, between various kinds of visas.

In any case, sysadmins generally do not ask for any kind of ID or proof of
citizenship, morality, residency, etc.

(On my many computer accounts over the years, as but one example, _never_
have I have been asked for credentials of any kind. Never. Not even a
driver's license, let alone a passport or birth certificate or whatever. My
current Internet Service Providers, netcom.com and got.net, are blithely
uncaring about the fact that I am technically a citizen of Ruritania, and
am not in the U.S. legally.)

--Tim May

Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
Corralitos, CA              | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^756839      | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May writes:

: At 1:03 AM 11/5/95, Simon Spero wrote:

: >And here we have the rub. People with permanent residency (i.e. green
: >cards) are fully entitled to access to strong crypto. Most foreign
: >students are on J-1 visas, which do not grant permanent residency.
: 
: Irrelevant.
: 
: J-1 persons are still accorded the basic rights of citizens, save for a few
: things like voting, holding certain offices, and perhaps jury duty (not
: sure about this, as my recent jury summons was apparently based on my
: Calif. Driver's License and required no form of identification whatsoever).

It is however a violation of the ITAR to disclose cryptographic
software (including algorithms) to students ona a J-1 visa, but not to 
someone who has a green card.

: Saying "People with permanent residency (i.e. green cards) are fully
: entitled to access to strong crypto." and--presumably--implying that J-1
: visa holders are _not_ entitled to use strong crypto within the U.S. (or,
: for that matter, in their own countries, but this is another issue), is
: misleading.

It is--if the ITAR is constitutional--a serious felony to give J-1
visa holders access to strong--and to weak--crypto, but no one has
implied that they are not entitled to use it.  Nothing in the law of
the United States says that foreign persons can't get crypto, it is
just a felony to disclose it to them (within or without the United
States).

: The laws about "showing a foreign national" certain items do not
: differentiate, so far as I have seen, between various kinds of visas.

The ITAR distinguishes between foreign persons, who are not U.S.
persons, and U.S. persons who are either United States citizens or
have a visa admitting them to permanent residency in the United
States.  The crime at issue is disclosing cryptographic software to
foreign persons.  And whether one is a foreign person does depend on 
what type of visa one has (if one is not a U.S. citizen).

--
Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
Internet:  junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu    junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu