Re: [NOISY] Your own Zundelsite in five minutes or less

At 19:55 1/30/96, Declan B. McCullagh wrote:

>As of this afternoon, there are Zundelsite mirrors operating at MIT,
>Stanford University, Carnegie Mellon University, the University of
>Texas, and the University of Pennsylvania.

I am really interested what the German government is going to do next.
Force their universities to dismount AFS?

How can we best get the fact the their censorship efforts have hit *the
wall* to their attention? Any Germans on this list that can file a
complaint against the sites with the German authorities? What about
contacting German Telekom?

We won't have won until they restore the routes to Webcom.


-- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com>
   PGP encrypted mail preferred.

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Lucky Green wrote:

> At 19:55 1/30/96, Declan B. McCullagh wrote:
> 
> >As of this afternoon, there are Zundelsite mirrors operating at MIT,
> >Stanford University, Carnegie Mellon University, the University of
> >Texas, and the University of Pennsylvania.
> 
> I am really interested what the German government is going to do next.
> Force their universities to dismount AFS?

No. They seem to be trying to pretend that the mirror sites don't exist.
They did recently get the universities that weren't served by DT to block 
webcom.com.

> How can we best get the fact the their censorship efforts have hit *the
> wall* to their attention? Any Germans on this list that can file a
> complaint against the sites with the German authorities? What about
> contacting German Telekom?

This has all been done. First Declan sent an open letter to DT, then a 
half dozen white supremacist groups sent similar "demands."

I think it's reasonable to wait a day for their response. At the moment, 
there is effectively no censorship.

> We won't have won until they restore the routes to Webcom.

Here I have trouble with the word "we," and what we're trying to 
accomplish. 

Censorship has clearly lost. Germany is simply not going to block 
stanford.edu, cmu.edu, mit.edu, upenn.edu, aol.com, and so on, not to 
mention AFS.

I do not believe that the battle to get people to read and care about 
Zundel himself is ours.

I'm happy to wait a day or two for the routes to webcom.com to be
restored. If after two days they haven't been, then it's time to press 
again. 

I do not want to allow the Nazis to associate themselves with "us." 
Please see article <DM0Fsn.5GC@freenet.carleton.ca> for a little on what 
they're trying to claim credit for. Note they are calling for mirror 
sites nearly three days after they popped up, with no involvement on 
their part whatsoever.

I ain't no part of no Aryan Vanguard. I say proclaim victory now.

-rich

Excerpts from internet.cypherpunks: 30-Jan-96 Re: [NOISY] Your own
Zundel.. by Lucky Green@netcom.com 
> I am really interested what the German government is going to do next.
> Force their universities to dismount AFS?
>  
> How can we best get the fact the their censorship efforts have hit *the
> wall* to their attention? Any Germans on this list that can file a
> complaint against the sites with the German authorities? What about
> contacting German Telekom?
>  
> We won't have won until they restore the routes to Webcom.

I agree -- I don't think the censors have lost. If anything, the
restrictions are getting worse; the latest reports from Germany say that
the www.webcom.com blocking is not limited to DT/T-Online.

Now the German universities are blocking, as is the "Win" scientific
network. All in the absence of a court order. One message forwarded to
me apparently came from network admins:

ich moechte Sie an dieser Stelle ueber eine bewusste
Routing-Einschraenkung informieren.  Bis auf weiteres wird die Route
zum Server www.webcom.com alias s1000e.webcom.com (206.2.192.66) auf
dem ipgate2 geerdet: "wir haben nun das Routing zum WWW-Server
www.webcom.com eingestellt.  Wie aus der Tagespresse zu erfahren war,
wird ueber diesen Server Nazi-Propaganda verteilt. Die
Staatsanwaltschaft Mannheim ermittelt gegen Ernst Zuendel, Produzent
dieser WWW-Seite, wegen des Verdachts auf Volksverhetzung."

If anyone's interested, we're talking about this in more detail on
fight-censorship, which is probably a more appropriate forum. Email
fight-censorship-request+@andrew.cmu.edu if you'd like to be added.

-Declan