your bogus post

We run an online mall.  We had been planning eventually to offer the
store owners the option of taking fv payment as well as credit 
card numbers.

After reading your recent post to cypherpunks, which I would say is
the most bogus post ever made on this bogus subject, we are 
determined *not* to use fv payment systems if we can possibly 
avoid it.

That post was news to no one.  The kind of attack you "discovered"
has been known about for years, and is just not a serious threat.
Your post was nothing but a calculated attempt to frighten end
users, and get publicity for fv.  

A company capable of doing such irresponsible things is not one 
that we would trust with users' money.

-- pg

On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Paul Graham wrote:

>... 
> A company capable of doing such irresponsible things is not one 
> that we would trust with users' money.
> ...

Some of you must have missed the superbowl ads where people and frogs 
were getting frozen to beverage cans, and movie actors moved the grand 
canyon with a horse.  Marketing is a fact of life.  Seems to me the 
irresponsibile thing too many of our society do is put too much stock in 
the marketeers.  I usually select products on their merits, not on the 
marketing.  Maybe you do too.  But the marekting works, and companies 
have to use it to stay profitable.

So, what do you think of their product?

Dave

> Seems to me the irresponsibile thing too many of our society do is put too
> much stock in the marketeers.  I usually select products on their merits,
> not on the marketing.  Maybe you do too.  But the marketing works, and
> companies have to use it to stay profitable. 

I don't think you can make a hard and fast rule about this sort of thing. 
The problem isn't just marketing hype.  The problem is that the claims fv
is making about competing systems border on misrepresentation. 

When a company does something you believe is unethical, what do you do?  
It depends on how much better their product is than the other guys', how 
badly you need it, and how offensive you find their actions.

I'm not as bothered by the incident as many here are;  I tend to attribute
it to panic on their part as it becomes increasingly clear that credit
card numbers transmitted via ssl web servers will be the first standard
for online commerce.

Marketing is important, and it can do a lot for a compnay.  But I don't
think it will be able to prop up fv over the long run.  Suppose you want
to buy some information off of a web page.  You can either give your cc
number via ssl, or go out and create a fv account, then come back and buy 
whatever it is you wanted.  Which one are you going to do?