PRZ grand jury - how about free accts for them...

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cpunks,

i was thinking about the whole PRZ thing last night and especially about 
our lack of information.  One of the best things that could happen is to 
get some or all of the members of the grand jury on the net and 
subscribed to the CP list so we could ask questions.

If they just had e-mail we could submit questions to them and ask that 
they reply to the whole list.

In this vein, it would be nice if someone (c2??) would offer dialup 
access for any members of the grand jury who wanted it.

i would be happy to offer shell accts to any member so they could 
enlighten us about the mysterious ways of the TLAs.  Unfortunately, they 
would need to obtain telnet access for this.

Is there any way we could offer these accts to them?  i suppose their
names are not known so this is obviously a problem and it wouldn't
speak well of the cypherpunks to go violating someones privacy just so
we could ask them to explain the government to us.

Just some thoughts...

- -pjf

patrick finerty = zinc@zifi.genetics.utah.edu = pfinerty@nyx.cs.du.edu
U of Utah biochem grad student in the Bass lab - zinc fingers + dsRNA!
** FINGER zinc-pgp@zifi.genetics.utah.edu for pgp public key - CRYPTO!
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sounds like jury tampering to me.  a good way to go to jail quickly.

A. Michael Froomkin        | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
Associate Professor of Law | 
U. Miami School of Law     | froomkin@law.miami.edu
P.O. Box 248087            | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin
Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

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On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Michael Froomkin wrote:

> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:17:35 -0500 (EST)
> From: Michael Froomkin <froomkin@law.miami.edu>
> To: zinc <zinc@zifi.genetics.utah.edu>
> Cc: cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
> Subject: Re: PRZ grand jury - how about free accts for them...
> 
> sounds like jury tampering to me.  a good way to go to jail quickly.

how can it be jury tampering if the jury has been disbanded?  

i did not mean to influence an active grand jury, but to ask questions
of one that had finished it's job.

- -pjf


patrick finerty = zinc@zifi.genetics.utah.edu = pfinerty@nyx.cs.du.edu
U of Utah biochem grad student in the Bass lab - zinc fingers + dsRNA!
** FINGER zinc-pgp@zifi.genetics.utah.edu for pgp public key - CRYPTO!
zifi runs LINUX 1.3.56 -=-=-=WEB=-=-=->  http://zifi.genetics.utah.edu 


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On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, zinc wrote:
> 
> how can it be jury tampering if the jury has been disbanded?  

It can't.
> 
> i did not mean to influence an active grand jury, but to ask questions
> of one that had finished it's job.
> 
You can give them accounts, but they are still covered by their secrecy 
oath, so they can't answer questions about what the grand jury did (at 
least in most jurisdictions, YMMV).   This got very contraversial in the 
Rocky Flats case, where the grand jurors hired a lawyer to get permission 
to go public to complain about a failure to prosecute.  

I don't recall ever reading about the outcome of that case, so I can't 
report the result.  If the jurors had won, I would have expected to hear 
about it.  It may still be pending.

A. Michael Froomkin        | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
Associate Professor of Law | 
U. Miami School of Law     | froomkin@law.miami.edu
P.O. Box 248087            | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin
Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

Michael Froomkin <froomkin@law.miami.edu> said:

MF> sounds like jury tampering to me.  a good way to go to jail quickly.

	Just like O.J.?  Or didn't you hear about the party he threw for
his jurors?

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On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Michael Froomkin wrote:

> sounds like jury tampering to me.  a good way to go to jail quickly.

    Horsepoop. The Grand Jury exists by itself. It doesn't need a judge's 
or a prosecutor's permission to receive letters.  I know this must cause 
heartburn and gnashing of teeth, to lawyers.  Imagine, making decisions 
without a lawyer in control......

On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Michael Froomkin wrote:

> sounds like jury tampering to me.  a good way to go to jail quickly.

Probably not, especially once the grand jury's term has expired.  What 
the non-lawyers must realize, however, is that (in most cases) relatively 
little of a "grand jury investigation" is conducted before the grand 
jury.  It varies from case to case, and prosecutor to prosecutor, but 
gathering records using grand jury subpoenas (and reporting to the GJ 
that the records have been obtained), interviewing witnesses outside the 
GJ (and eventually summarizing the information when presenting a proposed 
indictment for consideration), is much more common.

There are various reasons for this:  minimize the inconvenience to the 
members of the grand jury (if they had to hear every witness, productive 
or otherwise ...), limited available grand jury time, unnecessary 
creation of Jencks Act material (testimony of trial witnesses which must 
be turned over to the defense), and simple lack of time.  Know that 
agents cannot be present in the GJ except when they are testifying (and 
only one witness is allowed at a time).

I, for example, have about 40 investigations going on for which I bear at 
least some responsibility.  Most are conducted by the agents until they 
present the case to me for a final decision on whether to present a 
proposed indictment.

Certain cases, of course, I am more involved in, and I would guess that 
the Mitnick investigation was one.  But being more involved almost 
certainly doesn't mean bringing *every* witness to testify before the 
GJ.  So even if a grand juror told you everything that went on in a 
particular case, you would not know everything the 
investigators/prosecutors know.

EBD

In Siskiyou County, the names of the foreman of the Grand Jury (local) 
are printed in the newspaper on appointment.

You don't need to know the names. Go to the courthouse and ask the deputy 
Marshall to "give the foreman this letter".  I'd have a "straight" 
looking person do it, since the deputy isn't  *required* to assist.

HEck, you could probably just address a letter to "Foreman of Grand Jury, 
Federal Courthouse". 

Alan Horowitz
alanh@norfolk.infi.net