Re: SS Obergruppenfuhrer Zimmermann (NOT!)

At 04:21 PM 1/23/96 -0800, Simon Spero wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>
>> Alan Horowitz writes:
>>>[...] 
>> Okay. I think I understand. You're a fruitcake. Easy enough.
>
>The official pastry of the 1996 Cypherpunks.
>
>One might note that Zimmerman isn't, er, a common name for yer typical 
>Neo-Nazi... This sort of accusation is sufficient grounds for libel in 
>the UK (such accusations have been found to be defamatory, and would 
>almost certainly be settled within a few days. 
>
>Of course Phil (Hallam Baker) has more experience with this sort of
>thing... 
>Simon

Maybe this is common knowledge, but the name "Zimmermann" and crypto had 
another relationship, in World War I.  If anybody knows more about this 
incident than my vague recollection of the famous "Zimmermann cipher" would 
you care to tell the story?

>Maybe this is common knowledge, but the name "Zimmermann" and crypto had 
>another relationship, in World War I.  If anybody knows more about this 
>incident than my vague recollection of the famous "Zimmermann cipher" would 
>you care to tell the story?

I think you mean Zimmerman Telegram. This was sent by the Germans to the 
Mexicans through the US Embassy in London and offered Mexico the retur of Texas 
in return for entering the war on the German side.

The Brits were tapping the US cables as a matter of course and intercepted and 
decrypted the telegram. They could not show it to the US types saying it came 
from tapping their embassy so they broke into the German embassy in Mexico and 
pilfered another copy of the cipher in another code.

When the Americans were shown how easy it was to decrypt the German telegram 
they said "gosh how clever these guys are - no wonder they have an empire". MI5 
then managed to get their contact person at the British Embassy in Washington to 
effectively suplant the official British Ambassador, setting up a US 
Intelligence service for the Americans, in the process practically becomming a 
mamber of the US cabinet. [As a footnote Ian Flemming enjoied a similar position 
but with considerably less influence during WWII].

Now you see why uncle Sam is so nervous about Simon and Myself...

There is a good book about all this "For the President's Eyes Only". 

	Phill

jim bell writes:
> Maybe this is common knowledge, but the name "Zimmermann" and crypto had 
> another relationship, in World War I.  If anybody knows more about this 
> incident than my vague recollection of the famous "Zimmermann cipher" would 
> you care to tell the story?

It was the Zimmermann Telegram, actually, and it was a dispatch from
the Germans to the Mexicans trying to promise them most of the
southwest in exchange for being allies against the U.S. (which wasn't
yet in the war). The Brits intercepted and decoded it and released it,
which forced the U.S. into World War I.

Perry

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> 
> It was the Zimmermann Telegram, actually, and it was a dispatch from
> the Germans to the Mexicans trying to promise them most of the
> southwest in exchange for being allies against the U.S. (which wasn't
> yet in the war). The Brits intercepted and decoded it and released it,
> which forced the U.S. into World War I.
> 

Why is it that I seem to recall that one of the responses by a govt. 
official to the intercept was the infamous diplomatic quote

"Gentlemen do not read other gentlemen's mail"

Ah, would that this sentiment were more common in government circles 
today (sigh) . . . . 


C. J. Leonard                     (    /      "DNA is groovy"
                                   \ /                - Watson & Crick
<cjl@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>      / \     <--  major groove
                                  (    \
Finger for public key               \   )
Strong-arm for secret key             /    <--  minor groove
Thumb-screws for pass-phrase        /   )

>"Gentlemen do not read other gentlemen's mail"

Bzzt. This was said in the Thirties by the twit who closed down the Black 
Chamber.

The quote on the Z. telegram was "Why not give them Califonia as well".

	Phill

cjl writes:
> Why is it that I seem to recall that one of the responses by a govt. 
> official to the intercept was the infamous diplomatic quote
> 
> "Gentlemen do not read other gentlemen's mail"

It wasn't. That was in response to the entire Yardley "Black Chamber"
incident.

.pm

If I recall correctly, the Zimmermann Telegram did NOT bring the US into 
the war. It was however one of the many things that lead to a US decision 
to enter the war. In itself it did not cause the US entry.
Just my $0.02
Tim Philp

===================================
For PGP Public Key, Send E-mail to:
pgp-public-keys@swissnet.ai.mit.edu
In Subject line type:
GET PHILP
===================================



On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> 
> jim bell writes:
> > Maybe this is common knowledge, but the name "Zimmermann" and crypto had 
> > another relationship, in World War I.  If anybody knows more about this 
> > incident than my vague recollection of the famous "Zimmermann cipher" would 
> > you care to tell the story?
> 
> It was the Zimmermann Telegram, actually, and it was a dispatch from
> the Germans to the Mexicans trying to promise them most of the
> southwest in exchange for being allies against the U.S. (which wasn't
> yet in the war). The Brits intercepted and decoded it and released it,
> which forced the U.S. into World War I.
> 
> Perry
>