META: Filtering/Posting advice

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"I have a concern..."

Cypherunks 
First: Stipulated that any traffic has a 'right' to be on cypherpunks.
However, cypherpunks is what we make it.  Every time you post a message,
consider the desirability of seeing a hundred or so messages just
like it from every other readers' point of view.  Content control begins at home.

Second: I'll remind the reader that one can easily evaluate an
individual's past contributions to cypherpunks by looking at the archives'
"by author" listing.  If you post to cypherpunks, I'd suggest that you
go back and look at what you've posted in the past to get a feel for
how other people on the list see you.

Third: Filtering isn't just a game for the vocal: as noise begets noise, I'd
encourage everybody to filter out people whose prose they simply
can not stand.  While this is an important aspect to creating a more
readable list, I can't imagine anybody really caring who else has been
"plonked": to me, in seems no more than a preadolescent "nyah nyah, I'm
not listening..."

I'm half- (only half-, as I'm a free-speech absolutist) tempted to write a tool
that would automatically remove any person from cypherpunks who posts a
"plonk" message.  Until the total lack of security in majordomo is addressed,
this is a game that anybody who can telnet to an smtp port can play.

Fourth: Cypherpunks is fast becoming a ghetto.  My first reaction (which I
did not follow) to several crypto posts in the last few days has been to refer
the posters to coderpunks.  While there is some signal that will always
remain uniquely suited to cypherpunks (Tim May's contributions, Strata's
response to JPB, and Jim Bell's Assassination idea -- though not all of the
messages he's sent since -- immediately come to mind), any signal
that has another place to migrate will do so if the noise issue isn't addressed
better.  

Words of wisdom from the past:

 This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
 civilized world.  Your message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of
 dollars to send everywhere.  Please be sure you know what you are doing.

 Are you absolutely sure that you want to do this? [ny]

IE, please... if you aren't adding *new* *signal* to the list, please
refrain from posting.  If you must flame a person, do it in private email.

	-- Todd
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On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Leslie Todd Masco wrote:

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> 
> "I have a concern..."
> 
> Cypherunks 
> First: Stipulated that any traffic has a 'right' to be on cypherpunks.
> However, cypherpunks is what we make it.  Every time you post a message,
> consider the desirability of seeing a hundred or so messages just
> like it from every other readers' point of view.  Content control begins at home.
> 
> Second: I'll remind the reader that one can easily evaluate an
> individual's past contributions to cypherpunks by looking at the archives'
> "by author" listing.  If you post to cypherpunks, I'd suggest that you
> go back and look at what you've posted in the past to get a feel for
> how other people on the list see you.

There are options for those that don't want to read the noise.  I do run 
a free filtering service, it's certainly not the best in the world, but 
it's available for free and all who want it.  There are two more that I 
know of, one for free the other for pay.

I'd like to filter the stuff I send according to topics, but I haven't 
yet written the tools to do so.  As it is most of my subscribers are 
happy with the crappy service I provide, much happier than having the 
whole list delivered to them.

Personally, I am interested in reading the whole list because even some 
of the noisy messages are worth reading (except for Perry's "This don't 
belong here" and *PLONK*'s. :)

So there are options for those who want less noise.  I do not beleive it 
is anyone's place to banish anyone from posting to the list, nor grading 
a person's worth based on past posts.  Remember that the cypherpunks list 
is after all headless and should remain that way.  The whole point is to 
have an anarchic, leaderless, moderatorless list.

Now some Cpunx do have reputations for being on the ball.  Tim and Hal 
being two such punx.  That doesn't make them moderators, nor does it make 
them the only voices worth listening to, nor does it make them infallible 
or on-topic all the time either.

Yet were to to instill a fascist moderated list, their voices would be 
squelched by definition of what doesn't fit.  Not a cool thing IMNSHO.

Certainly there are cross overs ranging from news bites to Mitnik to 
conspiracy-paranoia-punks, etc.  I don't mind reading some of the shit to 
get to the good bits.  You never know, even the shit messages have some 
worth in the long run.

"If you filter, filter it yourself for yourself" is what I agree with.  
Now some folks think that the stuff I filter for them is exactly or close 
to what they want or better than having to do it themselves.  Fine by me, 
I'm happy to filter stuff for them.  As much as I'd like Perry to cut the 
shit and write code instead of spamming the spammers, I'd rather have to 
put up with the shit than to put up with restrictions on the list.

Just my e$0.02. :)

[Shameless plug: to subscribe to my list, send a >PRIVATE reply, don't 
reply such that the message will reach cypherpunks@toad.com with the 
subject being either "FCPUNX HELP" or "FCPUNX SUBSCRIBE" and no quotes...

The 'bots that subscribe folks will refuse any subscription attemts that 
come via the actual cypherpunks list. :]

==========================================================================
 + ^ + |  Ray Arachelian |Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness|  _ |>
  \|/  |sunder@dorsai.org|is cleanliness  and cleanliness is god-|  \ |
<--+-->|                 |liness and god is empty,  just like me,|   \|
  /|\  |    Just Say     |intoxicated  with the maddness,  I'm in|   <|\
 + v + | "No" to the NSA!|love with my sadness.   (Pumpkins/Zero)|   <| n
===================http://www.dorsai.org/~sunder/=========================


[This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act]
And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why
don't you boys just come on in and do em right here in my house - I'll just
watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's
getting old. I say we should do him." So the two daughters got him drunk and
did him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got em pregnant....Onan really
hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while
his brother got all the credit, so he whacked off first....Remember, it's
not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents,
your pet dog, or the farm animals. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern
Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]

Ray Arachelian writes:

> So there are options for those who want less noise.  I do not beleive it 
> is anyone's place to banish anyone from posting to the list, nor grading 
> a person's worth based on past posts.

Every one of us "[grades] a person's worth based on past posts" and
this is as it should be.  That's why my finger hovers only nanometers
above the 'd' key when I see a post from, say, Vlad the Imposter.


-- Jeff

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Jeff Barber wrote:

> Ray Arachelian writes:
> 
> > So there are options for those who want less noise.  I do not beleive it 
> > is anyone's place to banish anyone from posting to the list, nor grading 
> > a person's worth based on past posts.
> 
> Every one of us "[grades] a person's worth based on past posts" and
> this is as it should be.  That's why my finger hovers only nanometers
> above the 'd' key when I see a post from, say, Vlad the Imposter.

I'm not talking about from a personal point of view, delete the stuff in 
your mailbox at will, I'm talking about NOT filtering messages that are 
sent to all from toad.com.  :)  There is a difference between deleting 
stuff you don't like for yourself, and deleting stuff you don't like for 
everyone.

==========================================================================
 + ^ + |  Ray Arachelian |Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness|  _ |>
  \|/  |sunder@dorsai.org|is cleanliness  and cleanliness is god-|  \ |
<--+-->|                 |liness and god is empty,  just like me,|   \|
  /|\  |    Just Say     |intoxicated  with the maddness,  I'm in|   <|\
 + v + | "No" to the NSA!|love with my sadness.   (Pumpkins/Zero)|   <| n
===================http://www.dorsai.org/~sunder/=========================


[This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the Communications Decency Act]
And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why
don't you boys just come on in and do em right here in my house - I'll just
watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said. "Dad's
getting old. I say we should do him." So the two daughters got him drunk and
did him all that night. Sure enough, Dad got em pregnant....Onan really
hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant while
his brother got all the credit, so he whacked off first....Remember, it's
not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your brother, your parents,
your pet dog, or the farm animals. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern
Vernacular Translation, TCM, 1996]