Re: Cypherpunks vs. Coderpunks

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Tim May, an unelected spokesman of the Cypherpunk Ghetto (tm) wrote:
> Apparently the Cyphepunks list is thus being left to those of us who either
> don't want to code, or have no skills at coding, or who think the
> sociopolitical issues are more interesting.

I think you're misinterpreting what's going on.  Participants in the 
Coderpunks list are not generally abandoning Cypherpunks.  Some people
who have long been absent from the Cypherpunks list have joined it, but
I've seen posts from most of the Cypherpunk participants of Coderpunks 
on Cypherpunks since it was formed.

My concern is that the two lists will become more disjoint than they
already are.  I believe that the content of Cypherpunks is enhanced by having
the programmers present, just as the coders benefit from the guidance of seeing
the possibilities opened by their endeavors.

The remailers network is the most obvious example of the benefits of this synergy.
I'd hate to see us lose later rewards that could otherwise be reaped.

I don't believe that it'll be sociopolitical content that'll chase
the coders away: if the constant fighting over indisputable metaphysics
doesn't do it, the fighting over who was killfiled by whom first
and who's a total loon will.

	-- Todd
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Leslie Todd Masco writes:
> My concern is that the two lists will become more disjoint than they
> already are.  I believe that the content of Cypherpunks is enhanced
> by having the programmers present, just as the coders benefit from
> the guidance of seeing the possibilities opened by their endeavors.

I agree and would like to amplify.

I'm really sick of the folks who can post to libernet, com-priv,
talk.politics.guns, etc, pissing on the parade.

The thing that makes Cypherpunks worthwhile is that its a place where
you could, once, get news updates about GAK, information on the latest
research into cryptography, organize mass key crackings, discuss APIs,
talk a bit about the politics of cryptography, etc.

Now, we get anonymous posters putting up bits on corruption in the
DEA, sections of Tsutomu Shimomura's sex life, and other garbage. I
don't give a damn if you think "Perry's a whining asshole; no one
appointed him God", the stuff I'm mentioning is almost totally
irrelevant to the topic at hand. (I *still* see no relevance to the
late great Kevin Mitnick discussion, and frankly, I don't give a damn
if he's in jail.) I also really am not impressed enough with the
justification for why Jim Bell's "ideas" need to be discussed here.

For some people without jobs (I won't name names) there is no problem
with this. However, some of us have trouble keeping up, and
unfortunately Cypherpunks has content that is key to our work and
interests. 

Sadly, there isn't another place with the momentum where people are a
bit more polite and talk about the same information.

Yet.

Perry