.sig followup

At  2:52 PM 4/4/96 +0200, Ulf Moeller quotes:
>"In some ways the online environment in 1996 feels like Hong Kong in the
>last days of British rule: a very free community wondering what's going to
>happen as the forces of law and order start moving in."  --  Charles Platt

A better analogy would be free, peaceful, self governing Denmark waiting
for the jack booted Nazi thugs to arrive and start hauling people off to
jail.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | The CDA means  | Periwinkle  --  Computer Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lost jobs and  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Bill Frantz wrote:

> At  2:52 PM 4/4/96 +0200, Ulf Moeller quotes:
> >"In some ways the online environment in 1996 feels like Hong Kong in the
> >last days of British rule: a very free community wondering what's going to
> >happen as the forces of law and order start moving in."  --  Charles Platt
>
> A better analogy would be free, peaceful, self governing Denmark waiting
> for the jack booted Nazi thugs to arrive and start hauling people off to
> jail.

There's no question about the thugs *arriving*. They're already here.
Fighting them is an internal political battle, not an external battle. Yes
they're clueless about the net, so in that sense you might see the
CDAmeisters as an "invasion," but I really don't buy this stuff about
Cyberspace (a word only Barlow can say with a straight face) being a new
"place." It's just a communications medium, no more and no less real than
anything else. I think it would be better to stress that the online *is*
real life. Your money and gigs of information about you is online. It can
be a force for freedom, or a force for totalitarianism. Right now, the
momentum is entirely in the wrong direction, both online and in "real
life."

-rich

I'm probably just stating things that have been hashed out here long ago,
but I'll voice my opinions anyway... 

> There's no question about the thugs *arriving*. They're already here.
> Fighting them is an internal political battle, not an external battle. Yes
> they're clueless about the net, so in that sense you might see the
> CDAmeisters as an "invasion," but I really don't buy this stuff about

Clueless about the net? I'd say Congress and the "CDAmeisters" are, but the 
NSA most certainly isn't.

> Cyberspace (a word only Barlow can say with a straight face) being a new
> "place." It's just a communications medium, no more and no less real than
> anything else. I think it would be better to stress that the online *is*
> real life. Your money and gigs of information about you is online. It can

With ATM machines and the like, "Cyberspace is where your money is". I 
don't remember who said that.

Cyberspace used to be a good word to use, but it's been cliche'ed by the 
technotrendies. :(

> be a force for freedom, or a force for totalitarianism. Right now, the
> momentum is entirely in the wrong direction, both online and in "real
> life."

The media coverage of the sensationalist (violent and/or sexual) crime 
has given the law makers and enforcers an excuse to step things up. It's 
not quite as bad up here in Canada, but where the US goes, Canada 
(and probably the rest of the world) usually follows.

<RANT><PARANOIA> 
I'm particulary concerned about Clipper and it's variants... It doesn't
take a rocket scientist to figure out that Real Criminals will use Real
Encryption (IMHO Real != Escrowed) even if Real Encryption is illegal... 
Surely the NSA knows that Real Crypto will be just as easy to find as
pirated software, and criminals will use it. Thus, Clipper will only
enable the government (most likely the NSA) to spy on law abiding
citizens.
</PARANOIA>
I think it would be paranoid to assume the above, but naive to ignore it. 
Clipper may be some sinister plot by the NSA to grab power, or...
<NAIVE>
It may just be a last ditch effort to maintain the power they already
have. After all, nobody wants to lose their job, and the NSA is no
different from the rest of us in that regard. 
</NAIVE></RANT>

This is my first post to the Cypherpunks... So what government black 
lists does this get me on?
"To remove yourself from the Black List, send email to listserv@fbi.gov 
with the command UNSUBSCRIVE FBI-SUBVERSIVE-GROUPS" ;)