EYE_suk

4-22-96. WaPo:

   "Counter-Terrorism to Be Olympic Event for-U.S."

      Federal authorities are taking precautions against the
      use of unconventional weaponry such as poison gas, germ
      weapons or even a nuclear device. Those attending the
      Games will see only a small portion of the immense
      security operation. At its heart will be an estmated
      3,000 Army troops, 6,300 National Guardsmen, and at
      least 10,000 other police and private security guards at
      peak strength, with an additional force of agents from
      the FBI, ATF, DIA, CIA, NSA and FEMA.

      The Pentagon's office of special operations and
      low-intensity conflict plans to place its elite counter-
      terrorism teams in readiness. "We keep telling everybody
      we wil be armed with a radio and a smile," said Maj.
      Gen. Robert R. Hicks Jr.

   EYE_suk  (A scary skinhead rumble for I-MAX gouge)

|       security operation. At its heart will be an estmated
|       3,000 Army troops, 6,300 National Guardsmen, and at
|       least 10,000 other police and private security guards at
|       peak strength, with an additional force of agents from
|       the FBI, ATF, DIA, CIA, NSA and FEMA.

	Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?

Adam



-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume

On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Adam Shostack wrote:

> |       security operation. At its heart will be an estmated
> |       3,000 Army troops, 6,300 National Guardsmen, and at
> |       least 10,000 other police and private security guards at
> |       peak strength, with an additional force of agents from
> |       the FBI, ATF, DIA, CIA, NSA and FEMA.
> 
> 	Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?

Were that true they would have to move out of Virginia.

What you are refering to is the provision in their charter
(basically) forbidding intelligence activities in the United States.

The National Security Act of 1947 defines the duties of the CIA.  It does
so primarily in terms of "intelligence" or "intelligence relating to the
national security."  Legislative history indicates that the intent of
Congress was to grant a mandate for Foreign intelligence.  Consider also
the provision:

"the Agency shall have no police, subpoena, law enforcement powers, or
internal-security functions,"  50 U.S.C. section 403(d)(3).

It was contemplated that the CIA would be limited to foreign intelligence
operations and conduct very few of its operations in the United States.
The Agency was specifically permitted to be headquartered in the United
States and conduct what acts may be necessary to administer that facility.

"In public and private it was generally agreed among legislators and
representatives of the Executive that the CIA would be 'confined out of
the continental limits of the United States and in foreign fields,' that
it should have no 'police power or anything else within the confines of
this country,' and that it was 'supposed to operate only abroad.'"  Select
Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence
Activities, Foreign an Military Intelligence, S. Rep. No. 755, Book I,
94th Cong., 2d Sess. 136-139 (1976); See Also, Stephen Dychus et. al.,
National Security Law (1990).

The CIA has relied in past on section 102(d)(3) to authorize its limited
activities in the United States.  (Generally charging the Director with
the protection of sources and methods).

> 
> Adam
> 
> -- 
> "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com

> It was contemplated that the CIA would be limited to foreign intelligence
> operations and conduct very few of its operations in the United States.
> The Agency was specifically permitted to be headquartered in the United
> States and conduct what acts may be necessary to administer that facility.


[Overseas Headquarters brings to mind the French Foreign Legion.]

The Agency does lots of things domestically to support their
'overseas' charter. 

They pay the Skunk Works to design U-2's & Blackbirds.

They run (or did...) a rather large training operation at Camp Perry.

They keep safehouses for defectors; sometimes expensive ones. [There
was a great story in the WSJ a few years back about a white elephant
of one they wanted to sell...]

They have a rather unique warehouse of James Bond-ish gadgets. I
once met the logistics guy who had to account for it all, even when
he had no idea what much of it was!

They have domestic field offices.

(BTW, it's worth wondering what restrictions there'd be if it were
not for an ENORMOUS turf battle between them & Jill Edgar Hoover.)

But they don't even keep their own domestic guard force; that is all
FPS, same as NSA.


-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <199604240503.BAA04064@nrk.com>,
David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> wrote:

> (BTW, it's worth wondering what restrictions there'd be if it were
> not for an ENORMOUS turf battle between them & Jill Edgar Hoover.)

Or, if Hoover had won that battle and acquired control of foreign 
intelligence, just how much more like Lavrenti Berya he would have 
become.

- -- 
Alan Bostick               | They say in online country there is no middle way
mailto:abostick@netcom.com | You'll either be a Usenet man or a thug for the CDA
news:alt.grelb             |    Simon Spero (after Tom Glazer)
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick

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> > (BTW, it's worth wondering what restrictions there'd be if it were
> > not for an ENORMOUS turf battle between them & Jill Edgar Hoover.)
> 
> Or, if Hoover had won that battle and acquired control of foreign 
> intelligence, just how much more like Lavrenti Berya he would have 
> become.

Hoover did win, AFAICAT. He got domestic contelpro.
James Jesus was shut out....

FI? I doubt anyone outside of JEH ever thought he'd get that.

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <199604241938.PAA07049@nrk.com>,
David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> wrote:

> > > (BTW, it's worth wondering what restrictions there'd be if it were
> > > not for an ENORMOUS turf battle between them & Jill Edgar Hoover.)
> > 
> > Or, if Hoover had won that battle and acquired control of foreign 
> > intelligence, just how much more like Lavrenti Berya he would have 
> > become.
> 
> Hoover did win, AFAICAT. He got domestic contelpro.
> James Jesus was shut out....
> 
> FI? I doubt anyone outside of JEH ever thought he'd get that.

He *had* some FI, in Central and South America, during the war.  During
the war he worked assiduously to undermine Wild Bill Donovan and the OSS
and succeeded in having that organization eliminated in September 1945.  

Upon doing so he immediately presented a plan to Attorney General Tom 
Clark for expanding the FBI's South American intelligence network
worldwide.  The spook community counterattacked and persuaded Harry
Truman to reign the FBI back, eliminating its foreign activities
entirely and clearing the path for the creation of the CIG (later CIA)
in 1946.  Hoover's only victory in this debacle was his preventing
his arch-rival Donovan from heading the new agency.

(See Curt Gentry's J. EDGAR HOOVER: THE MAN AND THE SECRETS, Norton,
1991, pp. 326-27)

- -- 
Alan Bostick               | They say in online country there is no middle way
mailto:abostick@netcom.com | You'll either be a Usenet man or a thug for the CDA
news:alt.grelb             |    Simon Spero (after Tom Glazer)
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick

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On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, David Lesher wrote:

[On CIA]

> 
> But they don't even keep their own domestic guard force; that is all
> FPS, same as NSA.

Guard force begins to look like "police powers."

> 
> -- 
> A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
> & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
> Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
> is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
> 

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com

On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Adam Shostack wrote:

> 	Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?

That'd make cointel a little tricky :-) 
Simon
---
They say in  online country             So which side are you on boys
There is no middle way                  Which side are you on
You'll either be a Usenet man           Which side are you on boys
Or a thug for the CDA                   Which side are you on?
  National Union of Computer Operatives; Hackers, local 37   APL-CPIO

> 
> 
> > 	Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?
> 
> That'd make cointel a little tricky :-) 
> Simon

Errr,
That is the Feeb's department, & they guard it like the family
jewels.....


-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

>Subject: Re: EYE_suk
  >To: ses@tipper.oit.unc.edu (Simon Spero)
  >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 08:25:23 -0400 (EDT)
  >Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
  >In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960423221718.19976A-100000@chivalry> from "Simon Spero" at Apr 23, 96 10:18:37 pm
  >Reply-To: wb8foz@nrk.com
  >Content-Type: text
  >Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
  >Precedence: bulk
  >
  >> 
  >> 
  >> > 	Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?
  >> 
  >> That'd make cointel a little tricky :-) 
  >> Simon
  >
  >Errr,
  >That is the Feeb's department, & they guard it like the family
  >jewels.....
  >



    BZZT!!! wrong answer since 1981 on december 4  when president reagan
signed it into Executive Order #12333  TLA's(those intelligence
agencies having strictly offshore charters CIA,NSA others) have been permitted
to operate domestically in cases of National Security(or involvement with 
persons suspected of being agents for foreign entities) and Drug War issues.
Formerly it was simply illegal but since the intel community had taken
such a hard hit during the church subcommittee hearings of the 1970's
the new tactic was to acquire legitimacy for black ops on domestic fronts
thus the above EO was shoved under reagans nose quickly...

The reference to the above EO may be found in the "CIA off Campus" booklet
by the Bill of Rights Foundation on page 134-135
ISBN 0-89608-404-3 (c) 1991 by Amy Chen Mills and the Bill of Rights
foundation.
Get it its a fascinating read!!..

   cheers

On Thu, 25 Apr 1996 cypherpunks@count04.mry.scruznet.com wrote:

>   >>Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?

>   >Errr,
>   >That is the Feeb's department, & they guard it like the family
>   >jewels.....
>   >

>     BZZT!!! wrong answer since 1981 on december 4  when president reagan
> signed it into Executive Order #12333  TLA's(those intelligence
> agencies having strictly offshore charters CIA,NSA others) have been permitted
> to operate domestically in cases of National Security(or involvement with 
> persons suspected of being agents for foreign entities) and Drug War issues.

Only if the agents involved are attached to the FBI and report directly to
the FBI during the investigation.  Note that they were permitted about
this same amount of autonomy under 50 U.S.C. 102(d)(3).

> Formerly it was simply illegal but since the intel community had taken
> such a hard hit during the church subcommittee hearings of the 1970's
> the new tactic was to acquire legitimacy for black ops on domestic fronts
> thus the above EO was shoved under reagans nose quickly...

The above paragraph is a bit light on facts.

Actually, today to do domestic black ops you just let E-Systems handle it.
No need to use agency personal when 7/8 of E-System's employees are former
agency.  The CIA doesn't bother to do local black ops anymore.  Look to
other organizations.

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com

On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Simon Spero wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Adam Shostack wrote:
> 
> > 	Isn't the CIA forbidden from doing anything on US soil?
> 
> That'd make cointel a little tricky :-) 

The FBI is exclusively responsible for CoIntel within the United States.
The CIA is permitted no CoIntel activities at all in the U.S. excepting
internal investigations which must be turned over to the FBI after organic
review.

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com