Re: CryptoAnarchy: What's wrong with this picture?

>1)  Read as wide a variety of the stuff out there you can 
>    (even the books by "dangerous crackpots").  
>2)  Take a vacation to a tax haven you like because of what
>    you've read about it.


What tax havens would you like, if you did business in tax 
havens, which of course you do not ;-)
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              				|  
We have the right to defend ourselves	|   http://www.jim.com/jamesd/
and our property, because of the kind	|  
of animals that we are. True law	|   James A. Donald
derives from this right, not from the	|  
arbitrary power of the state.		|   jamesd@echeque.com

On Fri, 3 May 1996 jamesd@echeque.com wrote:

> >1)  Read as wide a variety of the stuff out there you can 
> >    (even the books by "dangerous crackpots").  
> >2)  Take a vacation to a tax haven you like because of what
> >    you've read about it.
> 
> What tax havens would you like, if you did business in tax 
> havens, which of course you do not ;-)

What's your anticipated application?

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Fri, 3 May 1996 jamesd@echeque.com wrote:
> What tax havens would you like, if you did business in tax 
> havens, which of course you do not ;-)

I haven't done any sort of survey lately, but I think the 
following jurisdictions are all good bets:

BANKING		Cayman Islands, Liechtenstein, Isle of Man,
		Canada(!) for some purposes, United States
		for non-US people and or nominee offshore
		corporations owned by anyone.

CORPS./TRUSTS	English speaking Caribbean countries, Hongkong
		in certain circumstances, Liechtenstein for
		its trust-like entities.

LIVING		Most anywhere that you like and that isn't your
		country of citizenship.  If I had the bucks, I
		would seriously look at Campione d'Italia.

I'd be curious to hear what Duncan Frissell and Black Unicorn
had to say on this question.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Sat, 4 May 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                           SANDY SANDFORT
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> 
> C'punks,
> 
> On Fri, 3 May 1996 jamesd@echeque.com wrote:
> > What tax havens would you like, if you did business in tax 
> > havens, which of course you do not ;-)
> 
> I haven't done any sort of survey lately, but I think the 
> following jurisdictions are all good bets:
> 
> BANKING		Cayman Islands, Liechtenstein, Isle of Man,
> 		Canada(!) for some purposes, United States
> 		for non-US people and or nominee offshore
> 		corporations owned by anyone.
> 
> CORPS./TRUSTS	English speaking Caribbean countries, Hongkong
> 		in certain circumstances, Liechtenstein for
> 		its trust-like entities.
> 
> LIVING		Most anywhere that you like and that isn't your
> 		country of citizenship.  If I had the bucks, I
> 		would seriously look at Campione d'Italia.
> 
> I'd be curious to hear what Duncan Frissell and Black Unicorn
> had to say on this question.

Again, my answers tend to be application specific.

If you are simply trying to protect assets from creditors, I suggest using
at least two jurisdictions, maybe more if you can, and "chain" your bank
transactions just like you would chain remailers.

Creditors with the means to go looking can find a great deal even in
"banking secrecy jurisdictions."  I tend not to trust the Cayman Islands,
but that's more my paranoia and "sixth sense" then anything else.  Take
that concern with appropriate grains of salt.

I've not been pleased with Switzerland lately.

Liechtenstein is wonderful if you have a good deal of cash, but it can be
less interesting for smaller depositors.  I suggest Verwaltungs und
Privat Bank AG (VP Bank Liechtestein) for smaller depositors, and Bank in
Liechtenstein (BIL) for larger depositors.  (Disclaimer: I hold interests
in both these institutions).

Isle of Man has become somewhat less interesting to me because of the UK's
willingness to participate in mutual assistance treaties with the United
States.  Still, for banking and asset protection from private plaintiffs,
it's secrecy is good.

Other jurisdictions I would suggest simply for banking secrecy from
private plaintiffs would include Vanautu (Though I would note that there
is a bit of instability there currently.  It seems the locals dislike the
english governor a great deal and have begun to sound meanacing about it).
While Vanautu has passed a money laundering law, if your application is
not otherwise criminal it's still an excellent option.

For Corporations I would suggest jurisdictions that permit bearer stock to
be issued.  Panama (yes, still), Vanautu, Isle of Man, Cayman Islands.  I
can give a more specific list for people who are serious about their
interest.  Many of the British protectorates are very attractive.

Living?  Again, application specific.  Do you sail?  Ski?

It's important to recognize that general advice which does not tune itself
to your specific needs can be worse than useless.

Ignore almost everything I said above if your expected threat model is
anything more than low to moderately determined private plaintiffs
(divorce, personal injury, typical small to medium business law suits are
all fairly harmless with mere secret banking, but determined attackers
with more resources and government attackers have a great deal more
resources).

>
>  S a n d y
>

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com

After a quick proof read I went and submitted the uncorrected article
anyway. [Duh, too many festivities last night].

On Sat, 4 May 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:

> Other jurisdictions I would suggest simply for banking secrecy from
> private plaintiffs would include Vanautu (Though I would note that there
> is a bit of instability there currently.  It seems the locals dislike the
> english governor a great deal and have begun to sound meanacing about it).
> While Vanautu has passed a money laundering law, if your application is
> not otherwise criminal it's still an excellent option.

Vanuatu is the correct spelling.

> Ignore almost everything I said above if your expected threat model is
> anything more than low to moderately determined private plaintiffs
> (divorce, personal injury, typical small to medium business law suits are
> all fairly harmless with mere secret banking, but determined attackers
> with more resources and government attackers have a great deal more
> resources).

The end should have read:

"But determined attackers with more resources and government attackers
with immense resources require the use of more intensive efforts and a lot
more money."

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com