RE: Why does the state still stand:

At  1:04 PM 5/15/96 -0400, Black Unicorn wrote:
>On Tue, 14 May 1996, blanc wrote:
>
>> From:         Hal [on the idea of companies operating fully anonymously]
>> 
>> It might be interesting to make a list of all the problems people can
>> think of why this idea won't work, paired with proposed solutions and
>> workarounds - sort of a mini FAQ for this important (some might say
>> ultimate) cypherpunk model.
>> .....................................................................
>> 
>> I think this is a much needed discussion  - in particular as it comes at a
>>time when Uni is is "somewhat disconcerted" at the defeatist attitude of some
>>cypherpunks and since TCMay is getting ready to read us the Cypherpunks Bill
>>of Rights regarding the subsidizatoin of other's people's cyber existence
>>(heh). 
>> 
>> 3 problems which immediately come to mind:
>> 
>> .  What if someone, hired on one occasion but fired at another, decides
>in anger to "turn coat" and report everyone to the IRS (or other fine
>government agency)?
>
>The entire organization would clearly have to be double blinded.  If this
>can be done for mailing lists (which I believe it can) it can be done for
>corporations too.  The real trick is getting the costs of anonymous (and I
>mean secure anonymous) communications low enough.

If all you need to do is beat the cost of commuting 20 miles/day, no problem.


>> .  What if a company does not pay as expected - other than adopting
>> Assassination Politics, what method could an employee use towards
>> getting their expected remuneration for work done?
>
>If payment is made weekly, it should be made in advance to an escrow agent
>who would issue a certificate that the payment for employee r2dd54 has
>been received.  The payment would then not be released to anyone without
>the consent of the corporation and the employee.
>
>Obviously the escrow agent would have to be trusted.
>
>...
>
>Even if a payment gets hung up in a dispute, it's only for a week.

You could require daily payment and forgo the escrow agent.  (Assuming you
are willing to risk a day's pay as an experiment in reputation.)  Note that
AP won't work if everyone is anonymous because you won't have a target.


What may be a problem for such a company is a social problem.  All the
creative groups I have worked with have had close personal relations. 
(Although they have not had wide agreement on significant non-work
subjects!)  I don't know if good, creative, group-produced products can be
built without such a relationship.  Does anyone know of an example of such
a product from an "anonymous" environment?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | The CDA means  | Periwinkle  --  Computer Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lost jobs and  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

On Wed, 15 May 1996, Bill Frantz wrote:

[Anonymous corporations]

> What may be a problem for such a company is a social problem.  All the
> creative groups I have worked with have had close personal relations. 
> (Although they have not had wide agreement on significant non-work
> subjects!)  I don't know if good, creative, group-produced products can be
> built without such a relationship.  Does anyone know of an example of such
> a product from an "anonymous" environment?

So make it a nym relationship instead.
Hell, with increased bandwidth, you could use PGPphone and some mild voice
disguising and have teleconfrences.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz       | The CDA means  | Periwinkle  --  Computer Consulting
> (408)356-8506     | lost jobs and  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
> frantz@netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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