Re: Why I dislike Java. (was Re: "Scruffies" vs. "Neats")

At 8:18 PM 4/30/96, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>Timothy C. May writes:

>> Perry, that essay was, as I said, sent out before it was finished.
>[...]
>> Now, while you may have _anticipated_ the point I was going to make in the
>> completed essay, you cannot say I have "mischaracterized" anyone's attitude
>> at this point!
>
>I could only respond to the statments you made, not the ones you could
>have made.

OK, Perry, I just have to give up on you. It's hopeless. You claim I
mischaracterized your position on Java and scruffies/neats when in fact I
never mentioned either your name nor the connection of my points to Java. I
point this out and you reply with some smartass comment which is completely
disingenuos.

Just as when you claimed Java applications can't do file i/o, and several
people point out that you are wrong and that it is _applets_ that you must
have been thinking of (and not even always for applets, by the way).
Instead of admitting you were wrong, or misread the post, you just say
"Same difference."

It's pointless to try to have a discussion with you. Which is too bad.

>In any case, I'm not sure that there is such a thing either as a
>"Security Scruffy" or a "Security Neat" in the argument about Java;
>the breakdown in opinions occurs along very different lines.

I suggest you wait until you see what I have to say on this before jumping
the gun by assuming you know what it is I'm going to say (or that someone
saying "application" must have really meant to say "applet").

--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May writes:
> Just as when you claimed Java applications can't do file i/o, and several
> people point out that you are wrong and that it is _applets_ that you must
> have been thinking of (and not even always for applets, by the way).
> Instead of admitting you were wrong, or misread the post, you just say
> "Same difference."

Yup. Same difference. I typed the wrong word when producing my
post. The context was using "safe java" for markets in CPU cycles. In
that context, yes indeed, "safe" Java programs, applets, or whatever
you want to call them that you get over the network and can "trust"
aren't supposed to be able to do file i/o. The whole point was that
Java doesn't provide the execution environments you need for CPU cycle
markets. Sometimes my statements are incorrect, but its very rare
indeed that I don't know what I was trying to say.

> I suggest you wait until you see what I have to say on this before jumping
> the gun by assuming you know what it is I'm going to say (or that someone
> saying "application" must have really meant to say "applet").

As I said (and you called me a smartass for saying -- how polite of
you, by the way) I could only reply to what you posted, not to what
you could have posted. There was no indication in your accidental
partial post that it was an accidental partial posting. I'm not a
psychic.

Perry